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For me it would have to be live feeding.I believe that there are cases when live feeding is necessary, but to me most of the snakes been fed live food on You Tube is for pervert pleasure of the owner and viewers. Most of the species shown could be converted to frozen thawed or freshly killed. Then they try to justify it by saying that its what they would do in the wild, and this is true but these animal are now in captivity. If indeed snakes need to be live fed why film it. When i see these videos it tells me more about the person making them, than anything about keeping snakes. With a few exceptions.
There's always metal music playing and a firey/spikey/skull logo. I don't know how anyone can feed live other than as a last resort, let alone watch it for entertainment. I feel bad for feeding live insects sometimes!
It's as if they keep snakes just because they think it's 'hip' or for some misguided 'rock 'n' roll' pose. Well it isn't hip or rock 'n' roll to show off with reptiles in such a cretinous manner.
 

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Now this comment is controversial, and it's not meant to be derogatory in any way to folk on here. It is more of an observation.

Most of the channels hosts are what is becoming a stereotypical reptile keeper that the public perceive. Mostly male, shaven head, piercings or big hoop earlobes and plastered in tattoos. Now I have no doubt that they are probably really pleasant people, but it's the image they give, like people's perception of some breeds of dogs that have a reputation of being vicious but in reality most are soft puppies.

Like I said, just an observation and I'm not casting aspersions here nor do I intend to offend. It was basically inspired by my late mother when I showed her a video and she commented that I would be shaving my hair next and getting tattoos to... "as that's what they all do" she said - Blesse her, and her dementia !

Someone mentioned rack systems... and whilst some are commercial breeders in the states, and naturally the snakes kept are business assets / livestock, so rack systems provide the method of keeping the largest number of snakes in a given volume, its the private keepers / breeders that follow this practice, often using thin low height tubs as well that gets me...
 

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Now this comment is controversial, and it's not meant to be derogatory in any way to folk on here. It is more of an observation.

Most of the channels hosts are what is becoming a stereotypical reptile keeper that the public perceive. Mostly male, shaven head, piercings or big hoop earlobes and plastered in tattoos. Now I have no doubt that they are probably really pleasant people, but it's the image they give, like people's perception of some breeds of dogs that have a reputation of being vicious but in reality most are soft puppies.

Like I said, just an observation and I'm not casting aspersions here nor do I intend to offend. It was basically inspired by my late mother when I showed her a video and she commented that I would be shaving my hair next and getting tattoos to... "as that's what they all do" she said - Blesse her, and her dementia !

Someone mentioned rack systems... and whilst some are commercial breeders in the states, and naturally the snakes kept are business assets / livestock, so rack systems provide the method of keeping the largest number of snakes in a given volume, its the private keepers / breeders that follow this practice, often using thin low height tubs as well that gets me...
As per my comment about people who think that showing off with reptiles is somehow part of a 'rock 'n' roll' lifestyle.
 

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Next is my favourite rant subject, keepers that shove snakes into tiny rack systems in order to get as many pets as possible into a small space!
And if you really want to cram them in without buying more racks.....



Just divide the ones you have.... snakes won't ming one little bit as we all know Royals love tight spaces :whistling2:
 

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Discussion Starter #25
The way Americans say reticulated pythons never fails to make me laugh
Reeticks

Whats worse is because of youtube I've heard English keepers talk about their
Reeticks
 

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so iv cut eggs, i did not do it because i couldn't wait, i did not do it out of greed as billy from mutation creation was accused of (how can one be greedy with ur own eggs, ur own neonates?) he was also accused of barbarism in that thread i believe.

mother/nature does not exist in the incubator, her role ceased when the original adults were taken from the wild.

we hand rear the parents, place their eggs in a perfectly climate controlled box, but when it comes to a shell slice HANDS OFF!! u fool dont u know this is natures domain, really?

a baby that hatches on its own, needs a couple assist feeds to get going is fine, were just helping, cutting the shell to that same baby is crossing a line?, rubbish.

snake keeping is not a mother nature partnership its a selfish science experiment, EVERY SINGLE aspect of the animals life we control, we manipulate, but that instant of eggtooth to shell is a magical natural event?, no, its the culmination of an artificial life support.

when i cut eggs i did not do it from greed, from impatience, from barbarism i did it because i did not want a baby that would make a fine adult one day to drown, just think of that, that struggle, that death, thats not nature thats stupidity.

if a neonate has a fatal condition egg cutting wont save it, if its a small twin, a cord wrap, a missing egg tooth, egg cutting will result eventually in a fine adult.

as for the argument egg cutting begets a weak line that's ridiculous rubbish.

if you dont know how to cut an egg dont, ur a clear danger to the neonate within, if u have the skill, the experience, cutting the egg presents no danger to the neonate within.

if anyone bothered to watch more than a still of billys videos u would have noticed he pinched/massaged both the membrane and neonate down to create a crease, then he cuts straight across, if you understand the egg structure the technique then u should know the baby and scissors were never near each other, if u understand neither then thats how the barbaric, greedy, impatient tags are created.

one last point, breeding balls is billys and others livelihood, so they "dangerously hack" into the very things that pay the bills?, yeah that makes sense.

rgds
ed

ps prehistoric pets is an exception, but again i doubt he's ever killed a neonate even with his invasive method.
 

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Ed,

You raise some valid points (and obviously a supporter of Billy's practices)... But I have only once seen someone cut eggs with rounded safety scissors... others, including Billy, use sharp pointed scissors or huge kitchen scissors. Often they end up in a bloody gooey mess having nicked a blood vessel and spilt half the contents of the egg. I'm sure most of the album gets absorbed prior to the hatchling exiting the egg, so in the instances where a proportion of that is lost could possibly disadvantage the hatchling. I remember being slated for cutting my last clutch of eggs well after day 55 and the small flap of shell showed a large vessel, suggesting the egg still had a fair way to go (they emerged on day 68/69).

Granted we are yet to see any hatchling being injured by this practice - but then they wouldn't show that in their recordings if it did happen. Also, there are varying degrees of cutting. Some make a small U shape flap to check things, others seem to cut away half the egg... leaving the snake exposed. If its to "help" mother nature, then why not make a few small slits in the egg simulating what the egg tooth does, and then let the hatchling make its own way out when its good and ready?

Changing the subject but still on topic, it was mentioned how Americans pronounce reticulated pythons... what also grates my teeth is hearing English keepers referring to Royals as Ball Pythons...because that's what their counterparts in the states call them.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
so iv cut eggs, i did not do it because i couldn't wait, i did not do it out of greed as billy from mutation creation was accused of (how can one be greedy with ur own eggs, ur own neonates?) he was also accused of barbarism in that thread i believe.

mother/nature does not exist in the incubator, her role ceased when the original adults were taken from the wild.

we hand rear the parents, place their eggs in a perfectly climate controlled box, but when it comes to a shell slice HANDS OFF!! u fool dont u know this is natures domain, really?

a baby that hatches on its own, needs a couple assist feeds to get going is fine, were just helping, cutting the shell to that same baby is crossing a line?, rubbish.

snake keeping is not a mother nature partnership its a selfish science experiment, EVERY SINGLE aspect of the animals life we control, we manipulate, but that instant of eggtooth to shell is a magical natural event?, no, its the culmination of an artificial life support.

when i cut eggs i did not do it from greed, from impatience, from barbarism i did it because i did not want a baby that would make a fine adult one day to drown, just think of that, that struggle, that death, thats not nature thats stupidity.

if a neonate has a fatal condition egg cutting wont save it, if its a small twin, a cord wrap, a missing egg tooth, egg cutting will result eventually in a fine adult.

as for the argument egg cutting begets a weak line that's ridiculous rubbish.

if you dont know how to cut an egg dont, ur a clear danger to the neonate within, if u have the skill, the experience, cutting the egg presents no danger to the neonate within.

if anyone bothered to watch more than a still of billys videos u would have noticed he pinched/massaged both the membrane and neonate down to create a crease, then he cuts straight across, if you understand the egg structure the technique then u should know the baby and scissors were never near each other, if u understand neither then thats how the barbaric, greedy, impatient tags are created.

one last point, breeding balls is billys and others livelihood, so they "dangerously hack" into the very things that pay the bills?, yeah that makes sense.

rgds
ed

ps prehistoric pets is an exception, but again i doubt he's ever killed a neonate even with his invasive method.
Ed we must agree to disagree on the egg cutting (this alone)would make an interesting thread.
If you watch the egg cutters it's very clear it's nothing to do with helping the neonates,it's everything to do with finding out whats in the egg,this isn't just my opinion,watch the vids it's clear for all to see,the last vid I watched by BHB he openly states after removing a fresh clutch he will cut the eggs after 58 days to see whats produced.Anybody can watch all the egg cutting vids (openly made and posted on youtube) and see their excitement in cutting the eggs and pulling the neonates heads out their eggs,it's nothing to do with helping anything but everything to do with seeing whats produced.
And again you say what I see in a lot of RY Youtube vids is the makers of these vids see their reptiles as money makers not a hobby,you yourself talk about damaging their investments,which is fine by me but they should make it clear their in the game to make money,their not hobbyists,what was once a hobby to some of these people have turned into something else.
Now somebody who is making money from their reptiles have a different agenda or motif from hobby pet keepers or even hobby breeders again this could make a different thread.
 

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why should they have to make it clear the neonates mean money to them?, says who?, why do you or anyone else think they have a right to tell a breeder, big or small that they have to reveal their intentions, like its a hidden secret we all have the right to share in, no, no we dont.

so what if they cut to see if its yellow, black or striped, its their egg, if you dont like it dont watch, if you dont like it dont cut ur eggs

and i think we should leave it there

rgds
ed

Ed we must agree to disagree on the egg cutting (this alone)would make an interesting thread.
If you watch the egg cutters it's very clear it's nothing to do with helping the neonates,it's everything to do with finding out whats in the egg,this isn't just my opinion,watch the vids it's clear for all to see,the last vid I watched by BHB he openly states after removing a fresh clutch he will cut the eggs after 58 days to see whats produced.Anybody can watch all the egg cutting vids (openly made and posted on youtube) and see their excitement in cutting the eggs and pulling the neonates heads out their eggs,it's nothing to do with helping anything but everything to do with seeing whats produced.
And again you say what I see in a lot of RY Youtube vids is the makers of these vids see their reptiles as money makers not a hobby,you yourself talk about damaging their investments,which is fine by me but they should make it clear their in the game to make money,their not hobbyists,what was once a hobby to some of these people have turned into something else.
Now somebody who is making money from their reptiles have a different agenda or motif from hobby pet keepers or even hobby breeders again this could make a different thread.
 

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Ooh there's so many things that I hate about these "pet tubers" and it's so hard to find someone that just gives good info/opinions/new ideas. I gave up searching for reptiles on youtube as most just make me cringe. Every channel has a name for their fans and go way overboard on telling viewers how grateful they are for the fans. I'd rather not sit through 10 minutes of sucking up, plus ads, plus shout outs, plus "buy my merch". Sadly, most youtube vids now feel so sterile, overproduced and just scream "give me money". More of a general rant on youtube as a whole there so one related to reptile youtubers:

Hoarding. Let's face it, you can't get loads of content out of a few royals. You gotta keep buying animals, breeding, getting more and more unusual species. Feed the beast or your views will dissappear

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

This basically sums it up for me. Also:

When they won't shut up about how great the reptile community is in every video they make.

When the only thing in the thumbnail is a snake and the title says something like RETICULATED PYTHON AMAZING BEHAVIOR!!! and then the video consist of a guy for 10 minutes sitting on a chair in front of the camera talking about his kids or whatever with 30 seconds of snake footage at the end.

(This is not only on youtube) The whole part of the 'community' where reptiles are considered cute and funny. Some people may like that, I find it very, very cringey and I think that in many cases, it contributes to the anthropomorphizing of reptiles.

But when there's channels like these : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl9kha_Rn4a95nTm73lMn_Q
to watch for free I'm not complaining!
 

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pet tuber hate.

those who critique other users setups

those who say "its a rescue" with that mother teresa head tilt

rgds
ed
 

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When the only thing in the thumbnail is a snake and the title says something like RETICULATED PYTHON AMAZING BEHAVIOR!!! and then the video consist of a guy for 10 minutes sitting on a chair in front of the camera talking about his kids or whatever with 30 seconds of snake footage at the end.



(This is not only on youtube) The whole part of the 'community' where reptiles are considered cute and funny. Some people may like that, I find it very, very cringey and I think that in many cases, it contributes to the anthropomorphizing of reptiles.



But when there's channels like these : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl9kha_Rn4a95nTm73lMn_Q

to watch for free I'm not complaining!
Oh how could I forget the thumbnails! Shocked face, emojis, "YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS!!!" or similar. That goes for most of YouTube these days though. It's a different beast to what it was years ago. Plus the mass censorship, banning of accounts, demonetization because someone discussed a "controversial" topic. It's killing genuine thought provoking content and giving rise to this white washed, stale content. It's no longer a platform for the average person to share their passions. You gotta be a personality, and influencer, cater to your viewers. Oh and then there is the complete manipulation of what is trending and what appears in your recommendations. Fake views, fake comments, fake subscribers, and fake content creators. Sorry for another rant! I hate what it has become.

That channel looks great though, will definitely check that out. I'll give one back and say check out Animals at Home podcast. Some great discussions on ethics, progressive keeping and more. Plus an advocate of keeping less animals and providing them the best, which I think the hobby needs more of

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This basically sums it up for me. Also:



When they won't shut up about how great the reptile community is in every video they make.



When the only thing in the thumbnail is a snake and the title says something like RETICULATED PYTHON AMAZING BEHAVIOR!!! and then the video consist of a guy for 10 minutes sitting on a chair in front of the camera talking about his kids or whatever with 30 seconds of snake footage at the end.



(This is not only on youtube) The whole part of the 'community' where reptiles are considered cute and funny. Some people may like that, I find it very, very cringey and I think that in many cases, it contributes to the anthropomorphizing of reptiles.



But when there's channels like these : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl9kha_Rn4a95nTm73lMn_Q

to watch for free I'm not complaining!
Completely agree! Drives me nuts when a video is 10 minutes long but 5 minutes is just them talking, show me snakessss not your face!

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Discussion Starter #35
why should they have to make it clear the neonates mean money to them?, says who?, why do you or anyone else think they have a right to tell a breeder, big or small that they have to reveal their intentions, like its a hidden secret we all have the right to share in, no, no we dont.

so what if they cut to see if its yellow, black or striped, its their egg, if you dont like it dont watch, if you dont like it dont cut ur eggs

and i think we should leave it there

rgds
ed
Ed this is my last word about this with you on this thread,if the mods want to take this off and move it to another thread thats fine by me.
I have no problem with people using,breeding,selling reptiles to make money,but I think you will find the Taxman,local authority licence department do mind.
As a pet keeper and occasional hobby breeder who takes his hobby seriously I do need to know who I'm dealing with,I buy from both but I need to know as it effects all sorts of things in my decision when I buy.
As for the egg cutting I'm sure the people who you defend have never shown an egg cut gone wrong (they wouldn't would they)but it must happen,we both know that not all neonates are ready to leave their eggs at the same time.
What concerns me is the irresponsibility of the people making these vids and posting them.How many Joe Boggs view these new to reptiles and take them at face value as the norm (part and parcel of RY)breeding counting the days waiting with their blades wanting to copy what they've seen?can you imagine the carnage because I can.The simple fact is nobody needs to cut anything but the way these people post these videos imply it's the norm when it isn't,it's confined to (lets call them )The RP/Python producer side to our (hobby)and you won't find it anywhere else.
 

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godamn it

you think breeders should declare their intentions/motivations because of ur concern for their taxes

egg cutters are hiding a carnage of nicked neonates from the camera

billy from mutation creation is responsible for a beginner somewhere on the globe cutting a neonate

and your "simple fact is nobody needs to cut anything" is simply wrong

"and you won't find it anywhere else", really iv cut mehelya iv cut couperi

so yes let this be the last word because ur dislike of someone else's choice is not evidence that choice is injurious

rgds
ed

Ed this is my last word about this with you on this thread,if the mods want to take this off and move it to another thread thats fine by me.
I have no problem with people using,breeding,selling reptiles to make money,but I think you will find the Taxman,local authority licence department do mind.
As a pet keeper and occasional hobby breeder who takes his hobby seriously I do need to know who I'm dealing with,I buy from both but I need to know as it effects all sorts of things in my decision when I buy.
As for the egg cutting I'm sure the people who you defend have never shown an egg cut gone wrong (they wouldn't would they)but it must happen,we both know that not all neonates are ready to leave their eggs at the same time.
What concerns me is the irresponsibility of the people making these vids and posting them.How many Joe Boggs view these new to reptiles and take them at face value as the norm (part and parcel of RY)breeding counting the days waiting with their blades wanting to copy what they've seen?can you imagine the carnage because I can.The simple fact is nobody needs to cut anything but the way these people post these videos imply it's the norm when it isn't,it's confined to (lets call them )The RP/Python producer side to our (hobby)and you won't find it anywhere else.
 
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pet tuber hate

bhb seemingly trying to get money from his viewers at every opportunity despite

revenue from his breeding business

ad revenues from a 2.7m channel

revenue from his bedding brand

having $250,000-$300,000 for each reptarium

bhb keeping that godamn giant tort in that little window pen, if anywhere their for a paddock in florida where they can graze like sheep not a tiny pen, it beggars belief

giant torts being offered to private keepers, whats their 200year ownership plan, because their gonna need one

rgds
ed

Ffs, folks! This is turning into a knob measuring/pissing contest in a hurry! Can we drop the egg-cutting right/wrong crap & move on please? Before the mods do it by closing the thread! Jeez!:devil::censor:
 
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I've been watching quite a few different you tubers lately. You know when you go from video to video and more get suggested so you watch them and before you know it you've fallen down the rabbit hole and you're watching Joseph Carter the mink man... :hmm:

I watch the videos for entertainment. If I'm not entertained I'll find another. I've watched Tyler Nolan, Chandler's wildlife , Will Nace and a few other of the tattooed Florida venous keepers and I've really enjoyed it. I've watched some bhb stuff, some mutation creation stuff and dare I say it, I quite enjoyed the egg cutting...

Don't really know what my point it is :lol2:
 
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