[Breezy_One]

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Breezy_One
Super Regular



Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: I Have Asked Before, But I Need To Know .....

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Hi All

Due to some very strange behaviour from my Water Dragons, I really need to know what sex they are so that I can seperate them, if necessary, before anything bad happens! Their appearance changes rapidly and I think I have captured them in such a way that they can be sexed by other WD owners {maybe?} ... They are 18-24 months old and I have a LOT of pics to post ... so please help me sex them .... I don't want to take them to the vet to get probed, in case it causes permanent damage.

Thanks Guys


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crazysnakedude
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Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 1009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject:

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i dont no alot about water dragons but i would say chillie is a girl the others are boys, dont take my word for it tho
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Blazey
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1805
Location: Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

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yep i agree with him. as the other two are obviously boys from their hemipenal (spelling?) area. lovely waterdragons
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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject:

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Thanks crazysnakedude ... I was thinking they are all male now, whereas before I was thinking chilli was male and the other 2 female. Now I definately think Aqua is male because of the size of the spikes on his/her crest and base of the tail, and the fact that around his/her mouth is red and that the femoral pores are quite dark now. I always thought chilli was male because of the bright pink/red under his/her chin. Snappy I really am not sure about anymore. First I thought he/she was male, then female, now maybe male? lol I spend a LOT of time with these three and it is driving me crazy! lol .... Recently they have been taking it in turns to hide for days at a time and that is not normal for them, so I am thinking maybe, if they are all male, now is the time to seperate them I have been seeing a little arm waving from Snappy and both of the others have dived for cover, another day Snappy and Aqua will be hiding, or Aqua and Chilli. I would hate for anything bad to happen to any of them.

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Blazey
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1805
Location: Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

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its a shame if u have to seperate them all but if it is 1 female and 2 males then i guess u'll have to split them. least they have only been hiding from eachother and not fighting.
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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject:

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Awww thanks Blazey So 2 thinking the same hhmmmmm .... Chilli is actually the smallest of the three, therefore may not be as mature. I will keep a look out for any change in him/her around the hemipenal area as she/he gets bigger. Would it be wise to seperate the other 2 now? I will be looking for anyone elses opinion as a unanimous vote will be a definate answer for me and my mind will be at rest finally lol

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Blazey
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1805
Location: Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject:

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how big is your enclosure for them didnt see the picture of them all on the settee together, they look quite big
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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:

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I will be moving house soon and have some great plans/ideas for new viv setups, so when I get settled, I will just make a few adjustments to make 3 or maybe 2 huge vivs instead one humungous one But if separating them before I move is essential, I have 4 empty vivs

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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject:

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At the mo 6 x 3 x 3 ... that is why I will be making a bigger one after the move they are between 16 1/2" snout to tail {chilli} and 20 inches snout to tail

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Silvershark
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3207
Location: Scotland
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject:

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Breezy_One wrote:
Awww thanks Blazey So 2 thinking the same hhmmmmm .... Chilli is actually the smallest of the three, therefore may not be as mature. I will keep a look out for any change in him/her around the hemipenal area as she/he gets bigger. Would it be wise to seperate the other 2 now? I will be looking for anyone elses opinion as a unanimous vote will be a definate answer for me and my mind will be at rest finally lol


Chilli could also be smaller because she's female and as she is 18 months old she'll be sexually mature.

I'm going Chilli female, the other two definately males.
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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject:

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WOW 3 thinking the same .... Thanks Silvershark ... I never thought of that duh! In that case, would she be laying any eggs this year? I was waiting/expecting to see some in the spring but nothing ... if anyone else has a different opinion on their sex I would love to know ... just to be sure lol

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AnthonyY
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 3107
Location: Surrey
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

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Late reply, but i agree, i think Aqua and Snappy are male and Chillie is female. Loverly water dragons aswell
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DEANandTRESE
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 1958
Location: ipswich, suffolk
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject:

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Clearly i know nothing cos id have thought all 3 wer male byt the crests and bulges [forget the pores]
Then again i cant even be sure of our "female" beardies sex anymore so...

Dean
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chocolatecolubrid
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Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: N.Ireland
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject:

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I agree - Chilli looks female and the other 2 male. Id seperate them asap as Silvershark mentioned theyll be sexually mature and you may find fighting starts between the 2 boys, especially if theres a female present.
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Breezy_One
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject:

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THANKS GUYS!!! I will setup the other viv in the morning ..... is a 4 foot viv ok for one WD for a little while?? That's the biggest I have at the moment

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.................. Well Here's An Update!!!!!!


It turns out that everyone who said 2 males and 1 female were spot on!!!!!!!!! I am 199% sure of this now and still have them in the same enclosure because we haven't moved yet (due to do so at the beginning of December). The 2 boys are well behaved inside the viv (and I am monitoring this VERY carefully) but once they come out to play there is a massive stand-off between the 2 of them every time and Chilli (the female) runs for cover They do some kind of tribal looking sideways strut and puff out their necks and open their mouths as if catching flies lol ..... then the most dominant male (Snappy) does his head bobbing thing .... then they will run around in circles chasing each other, but not actually do anything but what I have already mentioned. I was told to just let them sort it out, that they are trying to get their positions clear ..... that basically one is the dominant one and the other isn't.

I must say that aqua (the least dominant male) is the only one that has tried to mate with Chilli, but Snappy (the dominant male) doesn't like it one little bit and stands in between the other two if this occurs.

I am going to need to seperate them soon if I see any aggresive behaviour going on inside the viv, but for now they are all fine and eating well

Unfortunately though, I now know that a mammouth viv would not be benificial for the 3 of them to be together and once seperated, they will never be able to be put together ever again It's sad because I had hugeeeeeee plans for them

Could anyone advise me on which male to remove from the group? Would it be better to keep the dominant one in with the female? Or to remove the more dominant one? Saying this, Snappy (the dominant male and the oldest WD) is a lot more laid back around her. They can be seen sitting comfortably close to one another, whereas she flies and whizzes around the viv if Aqua (the least dominant male) is anywhere in sight. I am planning (when I move) to add another female to the male/female setup and 2 other females in with the removed male. So hopefully this will be a much better setup for them all.

I have a feeling that I am going to get some negative feedback from some of you saying I should never have let them stay together knowing there were 2 males, but like I said, I am monitoring the situation VERY carefully!!!! And ANY sign of aggression inside the viv and they WILL be seperated immediately, without question!!!! I have not left them together for my amusement, but I will say that I have learnt a great deal about water dragons and their behaviour and everything else by studying them carefullly and watching them for very long periods of time!!! I have set up the digital camera to film them when I am not around to scrutinise their every movement lol ..... what can I say .... I love the little boogers hehehehe

Anyways I haven't been on here for a long long long time and was looking at some earlier posts ........ and in answer to the sexing question about dave/davette, I know how desperately you want to know what sex ur little beauty is (and he/she is beautiful!) but u will have to be patient and wait until she/he is at least 18-24 months old before you will know for sure. The femoral pores will tell you nothing, even now.

The best thing to go by is when he/she reaches approximately 18 months, see if he/she stops growing at the rate he/she has been doing. My males grew very quickly and are still growing at speed! My female on the other hand, hasn't grown very quickly at all, but she is still growing, just very slowly. If by 18 months old the spikes on the crest and tail base have not grown at all, you have a female. My female's spikes have never grown, not even 1mm. If they suddenly shoot up from nowhere all of a sudden, you have a male. My males spikes grew very quickly! I was waiting for the nuchal crest to increase in size too but in 1 male it didn't (the spikes did though) so I wouldn't go by that, if you have read it somewhere like I did. The body shape is also something you can sometimes go by. But again only in 1 of my males could I tell a difference. If the body is long and oblong shaped, it is most pobably a male, whereas a famale will have a pear shaped body. Snappy has a pear shape but only because he is such a piggie lol I can only tell you from experience and that is the best way I can put it. Be patient and you will notice a difference. If you don't, you have a female ... that is the best advice I can give you ... sorry

I will have to take some more piccies and post them seeing as the little guys have progressed soooo much since my last post

Thank you all for your advice previously and for reading this long ass post lol :roll:

 

[manda]

hey there well firstly thanks for the update i wont jump down ur neck about keeping 2 males together as sometimes it cant be helped and if you say ur watching them then i belive you are
imo i would take out the one that hasnt tried mating with your female cant remember which one that was but please do me carefull as taking one out can distroy the group but i wish you luck and if you need anything else just pm me
manda xx

 

[Breezy_One]

That is a very interesting reply manda thank you ... are you suggesting that maybe I shouldn't remove one of the males? I really really didn't want to have to for that very reason of destroying the group .... they seem to be getting on very well inside the enclosure, it's only when they come out to play things get a little heated.

Thanks again for your reply

ps: It was the more dominant male that hasn't attempted to mate with the female. I thought that maybe taking out the dominant one would make him even more dominant and unable to put any females with him at all, at any time?

 

[manda]

if they are doing well togethere then keep them together the last thing you want to do its upset the group even more so when you want to get more to go in with them my advice would be when you get your others get 2 females then it will balance things out my only consurn is that the female could get very stressed in the next comming months when eggs are being laid from 2 males trying to mate with her
are they all the same age/size? as maybe the male that hasnt tried to mate isnt ready yet just a few ideas
manda xx

 

[Breezy_One]

The male that hasn't tried to mate her is the biggest of the three and the most dominant one. But the size and age are very close for them all, the female being the smallest but not very much smaller than the middle sized Water Dragon.

She doesn't seem stressed at the moment, but I will definately be keeping a close watch on her. It would be silly for me to get anymore WD's just before moving so I am waiting until I have moved and can build a bigger viv to accomodate all 3 plus another 2 or 3 females.

What a lovely xmas pressie that will be for me and the Dragons

 

[manda]

hehehe yes but as i said just make sure you get only more females to balance it out anymore males could cause alot of troubel those 2 males might be ok together but doesnt mean to say anymore will be
also are yiou planning on bredding these?
have you bred anything before?
manda xx

 

[Breezy_One]

Yes & No lol ..... Yes I am planning on breeding them and no I haven't bred anything before lol .... and Nooooooooo I will make sure I am 100% sure that any other WD's I get are female

 

[manda]

do you know about bredding wd's are you aware they can lay up to and inc 30 eggs in one batch you will have to make sure you have a huge spare viv for al the babies plus you will need to find out if tere is a market for them as tey aint very popular due to the size of viv needed for tem you wouldhave to vet eveyone wo buys one an i also wouldnt recomend selling them to a rep shop as they will be sold on to anyone who wants one without proper checks the end up ill or very badly looked ater
just pre warning you of problems that can arise
mandaxx

 

[Breezy_One]

Hi Manda

I am aware of what is involved in breeding Water Dragons .... I have a number of spare 4ft vivs and I will definately be vetting whoever wanted one. If I find it too difficult the first time round and end up keeping the majority of babies because I can't find suitable homes, I will think again about breeding them ..... I am also hopefully going to be the proud mother of baby skinks too ..... I appreciate your concern and hope that I can put ur mind at ease about it. From experience, all the WD's that I have encountered have not been captive bred and therefore died at a very young age because they were ill to begin with because of the conditions they were kept in by the so called 'breeders'. I have also seen where they are not kept in the correct size viv when I have been looking around at ads. I intend to educate whoever is interested. My friend was more than happy to listen to advice I gave her on keeping skinks and her baby skink is now in a very safe and happy environment, and I am hoping that I will be able to do the same for my WD's! They are wonderful reps ... the best in fact and I would never put them in a situation that I thought would endanger them

 

[manda]

yes you have put my mind at rest i hope you do well with it all i really do i just worry as so many people want to breed and then they cant sell the reps and it just breaks my heart cause they are ept badly
manda xx