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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All

Sadly my female Water Dragon is very sick and I don't hold out much hope for her at all! :cry:

I have been in the process of moving for the past month or so and for the past few weeks had to transfer my trio of Water Dragons into a 4 foot viv temporarily until we got settled. Three months or so ago I saw mating going on with her and one of the boys and got all excited but then noticed that not long after that she was constantly in hiding. I assumed it was because she didn't want to mate anymore and just left her alone. Surely enough her belly got very round and she has been like that now for the past 3 months or so and like I said, in hiding constantly.

A few days ago, I went to see if she was ok, as I do every day, and noticed she didn't want to open her eyes but she was still moving, not because she wanted to, but to get more comfortable. I thought she had soil in her eyes, so gave her a nice long bath and bathed her eyes in warm water. This is when I noticed how lethargic she was.

I took her straight to the vet who confirmed that she was very sick. Although she was so round, I didn't notice how skinny she was getting everywhere else. She obviously hadn't been eating during her gestation period. The vet said that one of the eggs was an odd shape and that it seemed she was egg-bound. He said that the odd shaped egg could be a sign that it is infected and gave me some antibiotics and said that he could operate, but because of her weak condition, she wouldn't survive such an ordeal. I have been force-feeding her wax worms and the antibiotics for a few days now and have seen no improvement. One of her mates keeps going up to her and nudging her as if to tell her to wake up, but she is too weak to move.

I am just wondering what would be the best thing to do here? Has anyone ever experienced this? If the vet thought she wouldn't pull through, why didn't he do what would be best for her? Or does he think she will pull through? Surely if she is too weak to move, she is too weak to lay her eggs? So what can I do to help????? What will happen now? I have so many questions, If I really thought she had any chance of survival, I would not have these questions, but the way things are looking at the moment, I think she is suffering unnecessarily and in a lot of pain!

The vet said to call him on Monday with an update of any progress, if any, but why would I let her go on suffering for any longer than necessary :cry:

If anyone has any advice, I would be truly grateful. I am so angry and upset at myself for not noticing this sooner. It is a known fact that if you see the ailments of a Water Dragon, it's usually too late :cry:
 
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egg biding is a very serious condition..they lose all strength and go down hill very rapidly..give her critical care formula as well as calcium to help her along...
the vet should really have suggested oxytocin as this drug literally forces contractions and she has no choice but to lay..
if she is too far gone than a c section is the only viable course of action, this can be a tricky proceedure..
tbh i don't know why she wasn't given a shot of calcium and oxytocin (could be she is too far along) however if i were you i would want to question this with the vet..
if they do not have enough calcium she will not lay..hence the calcium shot. for now give her some critical care (you can make some if you can't buy it mash up well gutloaded crickets baby food and water + some calcium) keep her hydrated and question that vet....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Rapidly I would say is an understatement. Literally one day she was fine and bouncing around, the next she can't move :cry: I will make some of this critical care up for her first thing in the morning thank you!!!! I don't have any crickets because none of my reps eat them, but I do have hoppers which I will use instead. Baby food? As in the jars? I have a syringe that I am using for the medicine. Incidentily, the medicine he gave me is called 'Baytril'. Have you heard of this? He says he uses it a lot in his practice for treatment of sick animals.
 

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yeah is what is known as a broad spectrum antibotic..be careful of the doses as it is toxic if you give too much can cause anorexia and severe diarrhoea...

yes normal baby food...mix with water and hoppers maybe few waxworms and some calcium grind it all up to a pulp and then put small drops in her mouth..

you can also use ensure is just as good when mixed with a bit of calcium ( tescos sell it as do any good pharmacy..is for sick and old people and basically is a complete meal.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank You Belial. I will certainly try this formula first thing in the morning. And I will question the vet as to why he didn't suggest oxytocin. As awful as it sounds, I think he just wanted me to end up back there on Monday to spend more money. Although saying that, everyone I know that knows anything about reptiles, say that he and his partner are the best vets around. People travel for miles to this particular vet, which is why I took her there.

He also said that unless she has an x-ray, he can't be 100% sure it's eggs that he can feel. This is probably why he didn't give her the oxytocin. So why suggest it was an infected egg causing the problem? I am totally confused. But I am definately going to suggest this to him on Monday.

Thanks again for the advice, it has been very helpful! :)
 
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no worries...can you actually she egg shapes? cos usually when they get to a certain stage there are def bulges..personally i am not a fan of vets in general..i travel an hour to go to one i trust! the rest don't know anymore than me...
saying all that why if she needed an x ray did he not give her one!?
just get what you can down her but be careful you don't put too much in her mouth at one time as she could end up literally drowning on the solution if it goes down her gullet...
good luck hope she recovers...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You cannot so much see the shape of the eggs as feel them. It took the vet 2 seconds to realise there was something there. Like I said she is very round and big around the middle, which is why I didn't realise the rest was wasting away, that and the fact that she was very active. There were only 2 eggs that he and I could feel, and if she hasn't been eating, wouldn't that mean that the eggs aren't growing?

I don't know why the vet didn't just give her an x-ray, but from what I can gather, he had already made up his mind that he wasn't going to operate to remove the eggs because she was too weak, so why bother with the x-ray? That's me just summising but it's the only reason I can think of for him not doing it.

I will be very careful feeding her, don't worry. She munched down 3 waxies today, but only after a great fight to get her mouth open.

When I get her out tomorrow to feed and bath her, I will try and get a piccy up so u can see what I mean about the roundness.

Isn't there anything I can do to help her lay these eggs? I think her condition would improve if I could get them out.
 

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heard a rumour..don't know how true that castor oil helps if fed..just a rumour though..don't think i could hurt.
the eggs continue to grow even if she doesn't eat cos they just use fat reserves that they already have. hence the fact that they get really really thin.
just make sure she gets a lot of calcium and water. and don't forget to not to give her too much baytril..what she on now? 0.5/0.6ml?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
She's on 0.05 ml .... He weighed her in at 100g. To be honest, she was the biggest of the 3 when I bought them home for the first time and she has not grown hardly at all whereas the boys have shot up and out at rapid rates. She reminds me of my first water dragon who was ill when I got him and never grew. I fought for him for a long long time but lost the battle after about a year. Nobody ever told me about critical care formula back then when I had him. In fact you are the first person who has directly told me about it and why it is used and for that I am very grateful :)

Back to Baytril .... what the vet did say, was that if I accidentily gave her too much, it wouldn't harm her. But don't worry I have been very careful with it.

Maybe I will add some castor oil to her critical care and see if it helps .... thank you
 

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100g is quite light...i would have put her on 0.03ml as 0.05ml (sorry missed out my 0 earlier!) is a bit high for the weight..but if there is a severe infection it may need that extra bit..keep an eye on her and if she starts acting really strange (gasping, hissing, really bright eyes, seizure) then get onto the vet!
you can actually buy critical care from the vet so i don't know why he didn't suggest it! (is in a green tub labeled critical care formula and is made by vetark) if all else fails get some ensure as this is a really good alternative...in fact if you got some of that, baby food, waxworms, water and calcium then you would have a great care formula.
pm me a pic and will see if i can see anything if you know what i mean!
like i said the castor oil is just something i heard and don't know how true it is but i know some travelers that swear by it (long story!):)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
LOL I associate Castor Oil with constipation, but I guess in a strange way it's the same thing only different directions hehehe

I really do appreciate your advice, it has actually calmed me down a little because I have been going out of my mind with worry thinking she didn't have a chance in hell of surviving this. But I do now have a little bit of hope :) THANK YOU!!!!
 

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no worries..you can only do your best..lets hope she's a fighter hey!?:)
any questions just pm..will try and be helpful!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
And To Be Honest, I think the vet thought she didn't have a chance in hell either and that is why he didn't suggest the most basic care, which is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank You .... I hope she is too :)

Well I will leave you in peace to enjoy what's left of the evening and thank you again, I am soooooo grateful for your advice!!!

Nightie Night!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
2 males 1 female and yes they are living quite happily together. The males have their odd way of dealing with one another (head bobbing and the side step outside of the enclosure) but they all know who is boss in there. And funny enough, the dominant male is not the one who has been mating with my female. He is the one who keeps nudging her to wake her up, and keeps the other male away from her when she is in hiding.

Just before anyone says anything about having 2 males in together, I watch their behaviour very closely and I believe that if for any reason the trio got split up, it would have a negative effect on the group. They have been together from a very young age and they are getting along just fine.
 

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i was only asking due to i have heard that they couldn't live together but as proven by your self you seem to being a excellent job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I was told that too Oolix .... and I truly believed I had 2 females and 1 male until they got older. I thought the female was a male lol ..... but when I found out that I had in fact got 2 males together, I had a very hard decision to make - do I seperate them? Or do I see how it goes and have a viv ready on standby just in case? I opted for the latter and so far so good :)
 

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i have two females (well i am sure i have two females) i am looking to get another one but i just waiting for the smaller one to get a little bit bigger to sex it prop before getting another one
 
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