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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, all of the inklings various people had were right. Despite my initial defence of Chris on this forum (I didn't know him, and did not see any reason why he should not be given the benefit of the doubt.)

We placed an order with Chris for two racks just under 60 days ago. (myself and my other half, username Rover on here). He was insistent that we needed to pay in full up front, as he could not place the order with FBUSA otherwise.
We didn't like this idea. Pay in full up front for a product that was not even in the country?! However, the other half has wanted FB racks for a while now. We were going to import them ourselves, but decided working through a UK agent would be much less hassle. How wrong we were....
We called up FBUSA, as we were handing over a large sum of money (£3,995 to be precise) and felt funny about it. FBUSA assured us that chris was indeed their agent.
So, we paid up. This didn't go smoothly either. Chris wanted us to lodge the money directly into his bank account...we said...no way! He didn't have a credit card machine. So eventually, we paid by paypal. Chris was on the phone to us constantly, saying he needed the money right away, otherwise FBUS
Grand. We were told he was heading to US to pack up stock, and it would be with us by the end of august.
We weren't in touch at all for the time Chris was in the US. We had a few emails from various people during that time, warning us about him, but didn't really pay much heed.
So basically, the racks didn't arrive when they should have. Chris was out of touch.
We had to call up FBUS to find out that the racks had not even been shipped, and that there was no date set for shipment.
This left us in a mess. We had handed over basically £4000 for racks we didn't have, and had snakes in tubs all over the floor on return from haam. (still do).
So, to shorten things a little, Chris told us it was sorted. He was going to air freight the racks over at his own expense - bring them over to Ireland to us even. What a lovely guy, we thought.
The day they were due to arrive, my other half called him to make sure everything was going ahead as planned. Chris said yes, he was just waiting on a phonecall to tell him the racks had arrived...
Time went on...no racks...
He did the same thing the following week. They were being air freighted.
We called up FBUS, and Lindy was pretty shocked to hear we had been told the racks had been air freighted.
No way, he said. Not a penny has been received from Chris, and THAT was the reason the racks had not been sent.
Not a penny?
Despite all of the rush involved in us paying, so Chris could pay FBUS and put our order through...
Two months later, FBUS has received no money from him? But they were supposed to be on a plane, on their way to us...twice!
We've been in constant contact with Lindy ever since. To date, he has guaranteed us he has not received a penny from Chris, and he is very disappointed that he trusted him - and put him up in hotels etc. while he was in the US.
Chris is a gifted bullshitter, and has blatantly lied to David (my other half - rover) on the phone, many, many times now. He tells him one thing - very sincerely. They we call up Lindy, and find out it's utter bullshit!
David just called him up a little while ago, and he's now making up some cock and bull story about 25% deposits to Lindy, etc, etc.
Well, Chris. Why did you need the full amount of almost £4,000 from us in such a panic then? And where is it now? Because Lindy hasn't received any of it.
We've heard many more, rather scary stories about Chris and his dealings since. He is a very, very good liar and will tell you everything you want to hear. He will come on here and try to come up with explanations for all of this - but nothing he makes up can distract from the fact that he took £4,000 from us, which was needed in an immediate rush to pay FBUS. Two months later, they have received nothing. Or the fact that he twice lied to us about the racks being on a plane, and that he was waiting on a phonecall to tell him they had arrived ???! The only reason we have allowed it to go on this long is because we have been hoping that Chris will pay Lindy so the man won't be out of pocket.
Freedom Breeder US have been fabulous throughout all of this, and have promised that we will receive our racks one way or the other.
I cannot stress how helpful and understanding they have been.

So now, either Chris will come on here and make up more lies, or he will disappear. We gave you enough of a chance Chris, and put up with more than enough, even when we knew we had been lied blatantly to.

We're all very lucky the freedom Breeder USA are such a decent crowd...
 

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I'd just take him to court to be honest.

I had a story like this regarding a laptop (bought elsewhere on another forum). Basically the guy went awol, so I called up some favours and started small claims court proceedings. He pretty much messed himself and refunded me as soon as he received the court papers.

Not trusting an 18 year old lad again.
 

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we got in touch with paypal - turns out it was at 50 days.
Apparently they have a 45 day crunchline, never knew this until now :bash:
Next stop try the credit card company if one was linked to your paypal account and see what their protection policy is.

Good luck and I mean that sincerely as there are just too many toads and scammers on this bloody internet thing.
 

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I think threads like this are an important part of RFUK and the forums in general. Due to being a minority hobby and the nature of the internet it does make keepers vulnerable and as a community this should be pointed out for others protection where possible. Businesses also go through teething troubles or have other issues and threads like this give them a chance to address or publicise the issues and therefore protect or enhance hard earned reputations. As long as it doesnt disintergrate into a slanging match i dont see the problem, once concluded the thread can always be locked or removed.
 

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we got in touch with paypal - turns out it was at 50 days.
Apparently they have a 45 day crunchline, never knew this until now :bash:
Contact your credit card company and ask them to place a chargeback. We've had this experience months after payment. You'll have to prove to paypal you haven't received your goods, and Chris will have to prove you have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Next stop try the credit card company if one was linked to your paypal account and see what their protection policy is.

Good luck and I mean that sincerely as there are just too many toads and scammers on this bloody internet thing.
Thanks dude. The only reason we paid the money is because the US crowd vouched for him. He had them well and truly conned as well.
They are going to send our racks (God bless them, what an amazing company - they are making them for us right now, and know they may never get the money).
If anyone knows where Chris is, apparently there are a few of us who would like to have a friendly chat with him. I mean that - I'm slim, 5ft3 and a psychologist! And I am still absolutely shocked at how smooth this guy is when it comes to lying. My other half got off the phone to him just a while ago and was scratching his head saying 'damn, I just can't believe it. He just sounds so nice on the phone! And he says he'll pay Lindy right away'. and I have to remind him - yup, heard that before. He got our money two months ago to pay Lindy....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think threads like this are an important part of RFUK and the forums in general. Due to being a minority hobby and the nature of the internet it does make keepers vulnerable and as a community this should be pointed out for others protection where possible. Businesses also go through teething troubles or have other issues and threads like this give them a chance to address or publicise the issues and therefore protect or enhance hard earned reputations. As long as it doesnt disintergrate into a slanging match i dont see the problem, once concluded the thread can always be locked or removed.
Thank you Stu.
I am not the type to place things like this on a forum on a whim. This has gone on for a long time now, and we have given Chris every chance possible to prove himself.
We would not dare tar someone's reputation unless we had hard evidence - and we do. Numerous lies via email.
Posting on a forum is, and always has been, a last resort for me.
I have had probs with breeders etc in the past, and have always managed to sort things out privately. Unfortunately, Chris has proven himself to be a compulsive liar...
 

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If you can get your money back via charge back then do so as it will leave this scammer in trouble with paypals bailiffs and then you can send the money to the good guys in the states for the racks that you will be getting from them.
 

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Thank you Stu.
I am not the type to place things like this on a forum on a whim. This has gone on for a long time now, and we have given Chris every chance possible to prove himself.
We would not dare tar someone's reputation unless we had hard evidence - and we do. Numerous lies via email.
Posting on a forum is, and always has been, a last resort for me.
I have had probs with breeders etc in the past, and have always managed to sort things out privately. Unfortunately, Chris has proven himself to be a compulsive liar...
I agree that this thread is necessary as a warning.
Very pleased the company are sending you what you have paid for. Show's what a good company they are. :)
 

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I am sorry for you over getting stung, its happened to me a number of times and I have a lot owed in at present, it does your head in.

It is the nice ones you really have to watch. When doing a deal, if someone is really friendly etc, sack them off. You want professionalism. I had a company recently that I started getting involved with. Did a couple of jobs, we get paid, then the matey shit starts and the promisses of lots of work.

Luckily Ive fallen for this a few times in the past and the red flags were going, so they got sacked off. Then I hear that they have ripped a lad off I know. Never ever trust a nice guy, you want a straight guy. Obviously the american end is doing the job as ultimately this guy is their responsibility, as he represents them. So good on them. I would like to say its unfortunate this has happened, its certainly unfortunate that it wasnt just a few quid, but the lesson is a huge one so at least you have that to take from it, and you will get what youve paid for. You have only really suffered a bit of hassle so it could have been a lot worse.

Unfortunately its idiots like this that give people in business a bad name. Its not like hes even tried to gel the deal between you and the americans in any sense, hes just got 4k for a couple of phone calls.

Threads like this are vital, your description of what happened is good and highlights key signs in people to look out for with regards someones actions and behaviour when they are on a winger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I cannot vouch for this, as it is something someone else said to me ( a very trustworthy person -or two - may I add.) But apparently he is already under investigation for fraud.
Thank you so much for the advice guys, we'll get in touch with credit card company tomorrow.
Chris is still making up new tales all the time, and is still promising to pay (weeks later).
If he ever does - that still does not explain why he demanded the full amount from us as he needed it to pay Lindy for our order, and has still not paid. Nor does it explain why he lied to us twice about the racks being on their way.
I would hate for FBUS to have to pay for all of this - and would urge anyone who has paid for an order to recharge via paypal if possible, and pay Lindy directly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I am sorry for you over getting stung, its happened to me a number of times and I have a lot owed in at present, it does your head in.

It is the nice ones you really have to watch. When doing a deal, if someone is really friendly etc, sack them off. You want professionalism. I had a company recently that I started getting involved with. Did a couple of jobs, we get paid, then the matey shit starts and the promisses of lots of work.

Luckily Ive fallen for this a few times in the past and the red flags were going, so they got sacked off. Then I hear that they have ripped a lad off I know. Never ever trust a nice guy, you want a straight guy. Obviously the american end is doing the job as ultimately this guy is their responsibility, as he represents them. So good on them. I would like to say its unfortunate this has happened, its certainly unfortunate that it wasnt just a few quid, but the lesson is a huge one so at least you have that to take from it, and you will get what youve paid for. You have only really suffered a bit of hassle so it could have been a lot worse.

Unfortunately its idiots like this that give people in business a bad name. Its not like hes even tried to gel the deal between you and the americans in any sense, hes just got 4k for a couple of phone calls.

Threads like this are vital, your description of what happened is good and highlights key signs in people to look out for with regards someones actions and behaviour when they are on a winger.

Thanks Freeman...apparently there is someone else who paid a 50% deposit on racks also (so how come they didn't have to pay up front, hey?)
Luckily, we didn't go with our instincts and lodge money directly into Chris's personal account. My other half's dad is the financial director of a large equestrian company, and organised the payment (as we didn't have a large enough limit on our own credit card). He absolutely refused to allow us to pay via bank transfer, and was immediately suspicious when there was no credit card system available..
I'm sure FB racks are a wonderful product. I wanted to go with Pro-Racks, just to make things easier - we already have a pro-rack. But my other half really wanted the FB ball python rack - so that is why we ordered via Chris.
But.....never again.
Lesson learned :D
 

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Shit 1 Lisa I am so sorry for your troubles. I too had an order placed but only a few quids worth of hides. Kept saying it would be a few weeks. Telling me he is fed up with all the bad talk on the forum and he can't get a chance. What a cheek

Mike.

Ps I spoke to him three times on the phone and seemed like a nice guy like you say.


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