Following

 

Try to vary the diet between locusts and crickets, I recommend brown crickets as they are less aggressive. Crickets are more nutritional than locusts are, we've got our Collared lizard on alternate weeks between them then the worms are given as a treat (meal worms) .

Are you putting down calci-dust in a bowl for your beardie? And do you dust the live feed with a multi-vit powder?

 

I've been told that you should NEVER put a bowl of calcium dust! They can overdose! We have a calcium dust which is to dust 3 out of every 4 feeds and a calci with d3 to dust 1 out of every 4. Fresh greens and water (evian) every morning and 7ish locusts in viv every day (kept topped up so they always have something to feed on) which helps to try to keep their natural instincts.

But need a little more info on the worms, theres some much conflicting info on web searches so thought I'd try here.

 

Oh and crickets are not a good feed for beardies if your feeding like we do, they are nocturnal so when the beardie is sleeping they come to life and harm the dragons, when the dragon is awake the cricket is sleeping. Not their natural food in the wild for this reason.

 

Yea I agree with the conflicting information, I've always been told to leave the calci dust down and they will take it when they feel they need it and I never give it with d3 as they self regulate with the uvb light.

I'm not a professional or extremely experienced just saying what I know. I'll keep following this post to see what's recommended xx

 

Surely when the beardie is sleeping you'd clear out any live food that was left in the viv before giving them the chance to feed on her/him....... saying that though I had a cricket hide away in my girls basking log and I hadn't found it before she went to before and got her tail... :'( I was well upset

 

No we leave the locust in there 24/7 when they are all eaten or down to the last few we'll add some more. So they have their freedom to feed when they want so keeping their natural instincts. The only problem is the mess the locust make (poop) But my wife is on the cleaning every morning/day and evening so not a problem

 

Does nobody have any information on the worms??????

 

We have 2 beardies. One much prefers to chasr locusts about but the other only eatm morio worms. We give him them regularly and hes fit and healthy. We only give waxworms as an occasional treat as they are fatty but our female doesnt like them anyway. Weve never really givem them crickets as we prefer morios and locusts and so do they im no expert just talking from experience.

 

I've heard a lot of conflicting information on mealworms and other similar worms. I've read some describe them as being good enough as a staple feeder and I've read others describe them as being as bad as waxworms so into I've been given are polar opposites.

I prefer to feed locusts to my dragon over crickets. Crickets get in every nook and cranny of his viv decor whereas locuts don't really do that. He seems to prefer locusts as well, they barely last 2 seconds after being put in.

 

I'm by far an expert but what I've gathered about larvae (worms) is that they tend to be higher in fat, especially as they mature and are ready to pupate. This can make them less suitable as a primary feeder depending on the animals health/frequency of feeding etc. Some have advantage over waxworms in that you can feed them healthier foods to get some gutload in them. If you google for nutritonal analysis you should find many charts. Part of the wide range is that bugs are variable - diet, age, rearing conditions ect can all influence the nutriton.

I see a lot of warnings against mealworms for beardeds (for fear of impaction) but I don't have experience with them to say anything. On the surface it doesn't make so much sense as they look nutritionally and physically very similar to morios.

I wish we had locusts available here in the us.

 

Thanks for the help.

It seems everyone is finding conflicting results into what to feed and what not to feed.

Yes, Mealworms seem very similar to Morio Worms, just a smaller version.

Sounds like its a case of fresh salads and locust for staple diet with odd treat of either worm's once in a while.

Are locust not available at all in the US? If you can get your hands on 2 (male and female) they a very easy to breed, very easy with hundreds of babies with 12 ish days! If you need any help just ask!

 

IMO any worms shouldn't be a staple in any diet - They are high in fat and don't give the range of required nutrients.

Keep them for a once a week treat or something.

 

They can't over load on calcium, as the calcium won't be absorbed without the D3. But they can overdose on D3. It is all a bit confusing. I've got a UVB strip going in my viv but I still use a balanced D3/CA supplement (which the instructions say should be used every mealtime), I don't put this on every cricket but I dunk one of the little buggers in every feed and give that to Chunk. I will also be giving him a pinky/ies every week, so I hope I've got it right. I reckon this is something the more experienced herp keepers need to write about in detail then get pinned
As to live food, I only use crickets as the invertebrate element because tegus also accept turkey, salmon and chicken. With Dragons I think as long as you keep it varied, you are fine. Veg and fruit plus the locusts and worms (which are fatty but fat is not always a bad thing) and crickets (potassium I believe).

 

They can't over load on calcium, as the calcium won't be absorbed without the D3. But they can overdose on D3. It is all a bit confusing. I've got a UVB strip going in my viv but I still use a balanced D3/CA supplement (which the instructions say should be used every mealtime), I don't put this on every cricket but I dunk one of the little buggers in every feed and give that to Chunk. I will also be giving him a pinky/ies every week, so I hope I've got it right. I reckon this is something the more experienced herp keepers need to write about in detail then get pinned

As to live food, I only use crickets as the invertebrate element because tegus also accept turkey, salmon and chicken. With Dragons I think as long as you keep it varied, you are fine. Veg and fruit plus the locusts and worms (which are fatty but fat is not always a bad thing) and crickets (potassium I believe).

Well actually you can overdose on calcium, but it's not very likely to happen. Dusting calcium twice a week and having some calcium in the viv is absolutely fine.

Supposedly, it's far easier to overdose on D3. That's why you shouldn't supplement D3 when you're providing UVB. I don't know how likely a combination of D3 and UVB is likely to lead to an overdose. Since I haven't got any data how much D3 is added to all the different supplement brands. The thing is, so long as you provide proper UVB lighting you don't have to worry about this at all. Simply don't supplement D3 and use UVB bulbs.

There is several data floating around on the feeding value of feeder insects. While that data is useful to a certain extent, don't go overboard with this information. The key to a good diet (in my opinion) is diversity. Don't keep it limited to a couple feeder items, feed as many different bugs you can get your hand on. Whole prey items are pervert over processed or partial foods. It's fine to feed morio's worms and phoenix worms on occasion. I'm not too fond of them both, but I feed them about 3/5 times a month.

There are also loads of perfectly fine feeder insects found outside the pet shop. Earthworms and snails for example (can be bought or found in the wild). The beetles morphed from morioworms and other larva are also fine to feed.

If you want some deeper reading on nutrition you could try this book: The Arcadia Guide to Reptile & Amphibian Nutrition : Arcadia Reptile

 

Yep confusing :s I thought the calcium overdose came about because of initial D3 overdose resulting in calcium being over absorbed then being laid down in the soft tissues? You see this condition in humans too.

I think I am going to limit to calcium only. Then d3/ca once a week and buy the book Creed recommended.

 

Actually Chunk, you were right. In order for calcium to become problematic, the over supplementation of D3 is necessary, practically speaking. Without it, the excess calcium will be excreted without being absorbed. The much greater danger, and much more common issue, is the lack of proper ratio of calcium in the diet. Thus pretty much all live food should be gut loaded and dusted, regardless of how often or how many times per week.

 

Just throwing my two cents in here. I feed Morio worms regularly to my bearded dragon as she is fussy with crickets and don't want her just eating locusts , we feed her on dubia roaches as a staple with worms and locusts added in to vary the diet. Worms have a higher level of chitin which is hard to digest which has led some people to panic about impaction. I would personally say as long as they aren't being fed too much and are alternated with other feeders and greens if you'r dragon isn't fussy you will be fine. Worms are great for feeding when your dragon has been sick as they are a favorite of many lizards and the higher fat content also helps to provide energy which is good if you've had an ill/ gravid dragon that needs beefing up. To finish up I would recommend just dusting your food with calcium instead of providing it in a bowl as I'm unsure of the results. If you are worried about crickets biting your lizard hand feed them or take them out before your dragon goes to sleep. Hope this helps

 

Great advice Dragon Glen, thats exactly what we are doing, varied health diet! Lots of fresh variety greens every morning lightly dusted with cal, locust always available in viv at all times, lightly dusted with cal (mostly all eaten before reloading) we also have Morio Worms has a once a week treat feed, Mealworms has an alternative once a week feed with the dubia colony under way! We haven't fed any fruit yet and most probably won't. They drink out of the water bowl, and poop! We only ever use evian bottled water. The locust are breed at home and only fed on what is safe and what we feed the dragons with added 50% protein hemp, spiral powder and dried dandelion leaves (all from health shop for human consumption) The dubias are being also fed on beardie safe food except the slice ofo orange (its supposed to boost/help breeding) So all in all a varied healthy diet :-D hopefully unless someone proves me wrong