Hi, can you try putting the video up again (I for one can`t see it)?
Can you also say what the long term illness was?

 

Sorry, somehow the video won't show up. He's left front toes twitch. It seems to be when he's lying down. I've observed today and when he's up, it's not doing it. He's running and jumping fine, bobbing at cars as usual. Karl had liver pbs. It all started with constipation that wouldn't budge. The vet did tests, found out about the liver and and infection at the time. The infection was treated quickly. The liver took is almost 2 yrs to clear but he's been fine since summer 2018. He's getting blood and fecal tests twice a year. He's got yeast that won't budge but that hasn't been symptomatic and the treatments were too harsh so the vet stopped. Thank you for your reply.

 

Thanks for the details, can you put a few photos up of the whole enclosure?

 

Karl is 7 yrs old. His temp are 105 to 110 under basking spot, 79 to 85 cool end. His UV is arcadia T5 12%. He's got a CHE for the night that I keep at 75. He eats locusts, veggies (only greens kind as we need to avoid all sugar), wax worms (on vet advice after the worst of the illness, so long as he eats his locusts and veggies, and that he doesn't get too fat).

 

I know how vet is great. She has saved him (with a lot of nursing at home and lots of love added) . When he got sick, we didn't know of he'd make it to 5 yrs old. No one really knows why he got sick. His digestive system has always had pbs. I wonder if the state of his belly when we got him left scars (parasites). He's doing great now, I hope this twitch isn't bad. We will always do what needs done to keep him well.

 

Thanks for the photos. can you give details of the type and wattage of the heat/basking bulb and UVB and say how you`re measuring the temps and humidity and what is the latter? I would also like to know whether you think a particulate substrate would benefit the dragon (I do, but obviously it`s your choice)!
EDIT: I will add this; the ambient temps of 79 to 85f on the cool side sound quite high considering the basking surface temp is only 105 to 110f (which is o.k), that surface temp would be possible with an air temp not much higher than the cool end, so it seems not a very large range throughout (I hope you understand what I`m saying)?

 

Basking spots: halogen 50W, CHE 100W, T5 us 12% 39W (34"). Tiles on the sides to help with the nails, kitchen roll the rest (I have chronic illness, can't lift tiles to spot clean much anymore so this had to be changed, and it needs cleaned will due to yeast).

 

Temps are measured with digital, probes are on the basking rock and one very end of cool side. Not sure what you meant on the edit part of your message.

 

Also got the gradient. I check the hot end is around 90 to 95.

 

The halogens bulbs are great, just to be sure is it flood beam (it should be)?
The probes are not as accurate as an IR (infrared) Temp-gun, these are quite cheap (I`ll put a link up shortly), I`m getting the impression from the pics that the CHE is above the slate basking area? If yes, you need to swap it with the halogen, also the CHE`s are o.k for raising the ambient temps if needed (perhaps during the night if it gets below approx. 21c) but useless as "basking" bulbs because they direct the heat all around rather than downwards (like the halogen).
I meant in the "edit" that there needs to be a distinct heat gradient. I also feel that the tank is much too sparce, they will climb if given the opportunity which obviously allows more exercise (mental and physical).
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Temp-Meter-Temperature-Gun-Non-contact-Digital-Laser-IR-Infrared-Thermometer/133235331105?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1f0571d021:g:3e0AAOSw7Zddx-0f&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qUVOE8OPMyMPOSRozCeEbj9IHNxjW%2Bz09kHYWr30%2Fam1N1sMktTzWsP7D7Uit1mZ9TNhrg%2FISJt6fEgPmtLkC5nDtT180Gw6xIJYN3dCcvwjsxCr16tPfISAzZ4vfMpRH4wvmpChl8pMJtw96cnd%2FspLHwu%2Fu8OJCOVXdh0Szuhcl2f6DsPYjuGBPQewYCGdgk2PIhxsbDNhyLSfmX2HLK7kq6hFKjfNewkS6fyvWTaLs2jMXv2l2GP4aPXinBa4%2BiwL6pb2sfx8BUYBfXWjAvY1DxYvJKpDGwgAijZWKjFcuGyJ1ieffdVCynU0PaTHfEwHVBnx7k99jOmY4Gx1gy0NFvi1w7MRNl1odBnxGdje0zpdo4%2FkMr09cg89ctWsURdsxclTc9JOu0epJgDb79KpVQAKFhBegS9jVNTI50DRqRfN3MEwnasCWxLjtySDeZd%2F7GHUU3hbtrLi6PNsw1CgjLI5INgLiRvT3I%2FW1bReOmTOZ3kNOgJnLUh0%2BhDLrYvi6%2Beg1jQDbqY2TQ2MbQy28kaETm3J119eHZ%2BMi5PpXMSwjeoxsgJBcIwLutqZSTXlnpbbwYRKUsplv3sTaVFtYOjIOa5Nf8vcDN3OPg9HPSxm9EU1JOOeOJiSTCz8J1b8NSeRnkTpmT1UF3I3jBW4gDX3UQAhs8ATpZKjk%2BXbQR1LUHD%2Fz1u02bKMmIYxNSyOQy7FELM0PbjAECehRyY4dR41wbBf7YXrls5IUxg6Q%3D%3D&checksum=133235331105b41ad965c61e485d8df7ae0e110c200b

 

The halogen is above his basking rock. The CHE is on the side. He does climb and runs both in his viv and outside. He's got a ladder to get up the windowsill. He's very active, he runs, jumps, bobs, a wee boss he is. He's got a harness for hot summer days as well.

 

I thought the halogen was near the middle of the enclosure, where is the basking site?
You haven`t said what the humidity range is?
I need to log out shortly, I`ll be back online tomorrow (tuesday) please keep posting.

 

Thx for the thermometer link.

 

The CHE is on the very left, the basking is to the right of the CHE, but still a bit to the left of centre.

 

Sorry, forgot the humidity. It's around 25%

 

I think there are a few changes to be made re the conditions (quite simple and not expensive). The humidity should range between approx. 30 to 50% or slightly higher (contrary to quite popular opinion) the lower figure will normally be just around the basking area. I can assure you that in some areas of their natural range the humidity can get over 60% at times (personal experience). I think in your case, because the tank doesn`t have any loose substrate only paper towels, there is no real chance of creating a decent humidity gradient which is as important as the temp gradient.
If you`re using the CHE during the day it may well be too hot around that area, can you confirm where the basking site is exactly, I thought it was on the left side where the (slate?) tile is? I need to log out for now, back tomorrow, please answer these questions for then.

 

The basking spot is next to the tiles. So there's the tiles 1st (far left), then the basking rock. I won't put loose substrate, would never risk it with Karl's history. His veggies are always sprayed with water which helps with hydration. He also gets baths. So you think it's a hydration pb? It's not come up so far in blood test or at check ups.

 

I've ordered the temp gun. I'll see if it shows the same as my digital thermometer.

 

Can you take a photo from directly in front of the enclosure so I can see where the heat/lighting is exactly? I don`t quite understand why you need the 100w CHE above the slate, firstly it will not heat the object nearly as effectively as the halogen bulb would and it`s quite likely it`s drying the air out too much (the humidity needs to be higher, at least in the cooler parts. I actually thought the odd looking object under the halogen bulb was a soft toy, what is it?
I would be more than surprised if using a particulate substrate had a detrimental effect on the dragon`s health in spite of the previous problems, in fact I believe it would benefit him greatly (but it`s your choice). EDIT: I`m not suggesting he might be dehydrated, only that the humidity is very low (have you checked in other areas)?

 

Hehe, the thing under the halogen is a rock. It's white, but it's real rock. 😉 The CHE is just on when it's too cold. I'm gonna see what the new thermometer says. Also waiting to hear from our vet. And I still noticed today that the twitch is when he's lying down. Never seen it when he's up. He's been running no bother.

 

Karl gone for a snooze. The CHE/halogen /rock. The white rock is where he goes basking. The other is more to climb and play and shuffle behind/near the plant.

 

Thanks, now I can see more clearly... If you are getting an accurate surface temp reading of around 105f at the basking site with the 50w halogen alone, what are the ambient temps during the night when using the 100w CHE, and do you know what the room temps are at that time?
I can`t see the UVB tube, where is it in relation to the halogen bulb? I would suggest using the slate at the basking site because it`s larger and will heat more of his body, which is extremely important. What is the object on the right side (the unusual shape)?
If his toes are twitching during basking maybe they`re getting too hot, otherwise I would have guessed it might be a lack of UVB but you say his blood tests indicate not, have you ever had a D3 (blood serum level) test done (it`s quite expensive)? The position he`s laying in looks perfectly normal.

 

I've just been staring at Karl's left toes now that he's snoozing. He's lying down but not resting on his legs (you might see on pic above). The toes aren't twitching. Position issue? This is strange. I'll tell all that to the vet of course.

 

You won't see the uv in the pic as it's too the front of the viv. I don't think there was a D3 serum done. There is regular blood tests for organs and he had a x-ray also (the vet was impressed with his bone density, she said she doesn't often see them so good). I will all admit the D3 again when I speak with her. If it's a toe twitch because he's hot, then it'll be simple to adjust this. I'm still wondering why it happens in a position but no others. I have hospital tomorrow, I need to rest well so as not to crash too bad. So I'll turn off now. Thank you for all the chat. I'll use it to report with the vet.

 

Before I turn off. I forgot to say, the weird shape is a root which Karl uses to climb onto. As you can see, he also likes to snooze near it. 😴

 

Looking at the photo, there appears to be a fair bit of height in the viv, do you know the dimensions? I would suggest looking at a way to raised the level of the basking area a bit to try and improve it, but I actually get why kitchen towel is going to be better here.

There are two ways to take temperature readings that are talked about with setups for reptiles, some use surface temperatures, other take ambient (air) temperatures, and I see Murri has mentioned getting a temp gun, I highly recommend it as well. The basking temp surface should be around 110f to 115f, the air temps then around that would be a little lower normally and then you want air temps around 75f in the far cool side/under shade.

I understand that he has had issues in the past and he is also on a vet care routine, so theres long term effects from how sick he was. I wouldnt change from anything the vet is telling you to do and I wouldnt use a substrate here.
I think you are on kitchen towel and easy to clean slate with him for the rest of the time you have him (also considering your own illness/situation and you say you cant really deal with much more than what the current tiles are), and thats probably the best given the situation.

I would look at the guard you have on the basking lamp you have, and depending on the height of the viv, see if theres a way to perhaps lower that basking lamp? I would change the guard for a dome regardless, try and improve that basking area a little. Raise the basking area or replace it with something with more height to it. You dont need the guard, theres no way he'll reach that in the setup you have, even if you did have less distance in bulb to basking it would have to be a big change in that gap for the beardy to be close enough to get to the bulb. Theres nothing within reach of it in your photo and beardies cant jump up to get to it.
The CHE, is set to 75 at night did you say? i would drop that to 65f/18C (i dont use one at all for mine, but house temp is around 18C at night anyway, Scotland is going to be colder i know, but you still want to aim for about 18c, you dont need it as high as 75f (24c) at night). I would try to look at a way to put something more of a cave/hide in though, he really does need a refuge space and the pics look like its all very open and exposed.

In a standard setup it is true that you want around 40% in the cool end, but, I dont think humidity may be as big an issue as it could be in this particular case. You say you let him out a lot and he is very active, outside of the viv (and going off your name) the humidity is going to be around 40% if not a little higher in scotland. You mention a ramp for the windowsill for example, is he almost free-roaming during the day then?

Your setup certainly isnt what I would recommend to someone, but that would be with a healthy beardie, and assuming an able bodied person, so its a little different here. I think a few little tweeks as mentioned, but the sterile type approach to the viv is likely safer for him and easier for you to manage and the most fitting to the situation. If he has got that free access to move out into a more humid environment (IE your house, rather than the viv) then that would be addressing his need for a little more humid retreat type area (which would normally be their burrow in the wild)

I havent seen if you managed to get the video up to show what you mean regarding a twitch, is it constant or just the occational one off flick when dozing or sleeping? You say its fine when he is up and active.

Ask you vet about what actual tests he does, if he is doing tests such as bloodwork, D3 may already be on the checklist. Should be as easy as a phonecall to find out. Twitches can be from mineral imbalances, so its certainly possible as a cause for concern here, especially with the history. As you said the 6 month check are required, so the vet recognises the fact theres going to be long term (possibly lifelong) fall out from before.

 

Hi, sorry I couldn't answer before. I tried again with the video, still don't work. Guess it's too big. Karl's toes haven't twitched the last 2 days. I haven't yet heard back from the vet, so I'll observe him the next couple days. If he twitches again, I'll phone back, if not, I'll wait till our next visit. He's been active, lots of running and bobbing at cars from the windowsill.
I'm also waiting on the temp gun to arrive, want to see how hot the rock is on the surface (and adapt from there if needed). Karl has a hide, he uses it as he feels like, though he also like just under his root. He is "free range" to a point. Only the living room when I'm on my own (plenty of places to run, climb, go under, jump). But yes, if he wants out, he gets out. He's good at letting me know when this is and when he wants back in the viv. And, indeed Glasgow is not too dry
I'm hoping whatever caused the twitch is over. But if not, he will be seen by the vet before his next planned date I guess (unless she can advise on the phone with all the info). I'll check with the vet about D3 levels to see if they were included in previous tests, if not, if she thinks we should add them, we'll do.
Thank you guys!

 

Hi, I get the feeling the dragon spends many hours outside it`s enclosure? If that`s correct, it`s reasonable to suggest that his immune system will be somewhat compromised, unless the conditions closely resemble his natural habitat (usually that`s not so) so can you give details of the temps, etc in your home? It takes literally minutes for his core body temps to fall, even if only by a few degrees, when that happens very regularly it can put his health at risk, and if this has happened for most of the time he`s been under your care, it may well explain the previous health issues? The maximum time "outside" should be measured in minutes, not hours (unless as I`ve mentioned, the climate there replicates the wild quite closely).

 

Thank for that. I'll talk to Karl's vet about this. She's always been happy for him to roam around, so long as he basks well (especially after food), and he loves to roam and boss around.

 

I`m not sure why the vet would say it`s a good idea to let the dragon free roam for an extended period, unless as I said, the conditions inside your home closely resemble those in their natural habitat regarding the temps, especially? I can assure you that one hour per "roam" is enough to compromise the immune system if done too regularly and over an extended period (which it appears to be). I wasn`t suggesting you actually "force" him out, but you have to accept that just because he "enjoys" the experience it doesn`t necessarily mean it`s good for him, YOU are responsible for his "decisions" in that regard, he has no idea why it could have a negative effect on his health! Please understand I`m not criticising you for no reason, I`m only trying to help, and suggest ways you can make sure it`s safe to allow "free roaming" for limited amounts of time. These relatively small reptiles lose heat VERY quickly, I would suggest limiting the roaming to 15 to 20mins at a time (you can do that 2 or 3 times a day).
You haven`t said what the room temps are? At the present time if the Temp-gun hasn`t arrived you don`t know what the basking surface temps are either in his enclosure or in the places he chooses to sit outside, obviously if those are within the recommended range it`s not so important and if when he roams he can still bask with suitable surface temps in place it would be o.k. His core body temp needs to be around 34c to function very efficiently, of course it can rise/fall somewhat throughout the day even in his enclosure (as it would in the wild). Perhaps when he was sick the fact he took so long to recover was simply that his basking temps in particular weren`t quite sufficient, that could have a negative effect on the medication? You need to stamp your authority on him!

 

Sorry, I'm not good with the edit (haven't found the button). Karl is out for up to an hour at a time, sometimes twice a day, not everyday. Only when he wants out, I'm not forcing him.

 

The "EDIT" button is at the bottom right of the messages you post (a small box with either "edit" or "quote").