Provided the heater is thermostaically controlled using a pulse proportional thermostat a 150w ceramic in a 4' viv will be fine... Ensure you use the proper ceramic holder and high rated heat cable to make the connection (if the holder doesn't come with it already supplied)

 

Hi, a CHE is useless as basking bulb no matter whether it`s on a thermostat or not, the OP needs a flood beam bulb such as a par 30 or par 38 halogen.

 

For a beardie it's best to use a light-emitting basking lamp as they use the visual cue to bask, & to turn off all the heat overnight.

 

I'm open to be corrected, but why wouldn't a che be fine as an heat source?

 

It's fine for snakes & nocturnal lizards, but not as a basking lamp for beardies & other diurnal lizards- they use a visual cue for basking as well as thermal.

 

Thank you for your replies. We ended up phoning a recommended reptile vet and she has said the CHL is fine to use.
Rex seems to be basking in the right spot, so I'm guessing he's worked out where the heat is coming from without needing a basking bulb.

 

As long as you get the right basking temps which must be 110-115f, you might be ok, you still need to turn the heat off overnight though- they need it to cool down at night. But all the experienced beardie keepers here use basking lamps.

 

OK granted I'm not a lizard expert, only ever keeping a European Green, which needs totally different environmentals, but having used CHEs in snakes enclosures for 20 years, the statement about the IR emissions being totally omni directional, without having a focus is simply not true. Granted they are not as directional and narrow beam as a spot lamp, but they do focus the heat downward due to their design of having the element closer to the side pointing towards the substrate rather the the rear which tends to be thicker. Plus you can also use reflectors to direct the IR radiation forward rather than having the rearward heat warm the ambient air to a greater degree.

But I agree, for the species being kept, an narrow beam spot lamp on a dimmer stat would suit better, given that a visual light source provides the animal with a clue as to where the heat is concentrated.

 

I`m only responding again to clear up any confusion because quite a number of keepers make this mistake; it`s extremely important that any bulb used for basking has a wide beam (flood) not a narrow spot beam as you seem to suggest, the latter is more likely to cause serious burns. :thumb:

 

I'd be cautious of that vet too, thats bad advice for a beardie.
The species respond to light intensity, and are a basking species, the gradients you need in a viv for them dont properly establish with a CHE. You need proper directional heat and light, CHE's are ambient heaters, they're electric radiators.

 

Thank you for taking your time to respond, really appreciate it.

Rex seems to have straight away worked out where the basking spot is (see pic). Does that change your opinion at all?

Also it's 25 the cooler end and 35degrees where the basking spot is.

Many thanks

 

35 is miles too cold, it needs to be 43-46. You should also have a loose substrate for Rex to burrow in.

 

Thank you

 

We have now ordered a basking bulb, bulb stat and fitting based on your advice. We will keep the ceramic lamp for night. Thank you.

 

Hi, can you link me or give details of the basking bulb brand and wattage, also what the humidity range is and how you measure that? The enclosure looks far too sparce, can you get a pic of the whole setup?

 

I will also add that the probe can only read ambient (air) temps, that`s why an IR Temp-gun has been recommended (it can only read surface temps which is extremely important)..
You basically need to know two temps during "activity time"; the lowest ambient @ approx 21 to 24c then the SURFACE temp of the basking object @ between approx 38 to 45c it`s important you offer a large enough object that allows a temp range.
Nighttime temp can fall to approx. 19c unless the animal is brumating.
The humidity needs to range between approx. 30 to 60%, again it`s most important to provide a range, for many years people have been keeping these animals at a much too low humidity level, it needs to be kept in mind that in the wild the retreats they use will normally have a much higher humidity than the outside air.

 

He has a water bowl, food bowl, large climbing log, large natural lizard-lounger too, so I feel he has plenty in the vivarium.

 

I have no idea what a "large lizard lounger " is? If you feel you`ve furnished it in a way that helps the animal use as much of the space as possible can you please show the whole enclosure because the photo you put up only shows part of it which to me looks quite sparce?

 

We have it just incase the heat drops below 16 degrees c

 

I personally wouldn`t want the lowest ambient to fall below 19c during the night unless the dragon is brumating. The nighttime in the wild can be quite cold, but the retreats they use are normally warmer than the outside air.

 

We are happy with how we have furnished the vivarium. He has plenty to climb on, hide under and room to roam.
Minimum temp won't drop below 18degrees c.

 

Why come asking for advise then discard it when it comes from members who have more experience than you?? The enclosure layout is in need of improvement so it can better support the animal.

 

I haven't asked for advice about my enclosure set up, I asked for advice on heat and basking area.

 

And you kindly posted a picture of the setup, which has raised a few concerns over the enclosure setup, such as the heating method (which you have taken on board), and the lack of lose substrate. Whilst it's your prerogative as to whether you take that advice or ignore it is down to you.

As mentioned I am out of my depth here as I've never kept the reptile in question. However I have spent a lot of time researching CHE's as part of developing my own thermostat controller over the past 9 years, hence my original reply to the question as to the wattage of the CHE being adequate for a 4' viv. I don't really want to go into the pro's or cons of lamps compared to CHEs, especially as its already been pointed out that everyone else used lamps because in their experience these lizards seem to associate the bright illumination with heat. Having kept snakes over 33 years, both nocturnal and diurnal, mostly using CHE's for a bulk of that time, the snakes seem to know which end is the warm end and which is the cool even though there is no visual stimulation, so personally I can't see why lizards are any different, but again, this is just my opinion, and if those who keep these lizards say you need a lamp then who am I to say otherwise.

@murrindindi - Having googled lizard lounger, it seems to be a woven hammock type thing

 

Thank you Malc.

 

I've tried to be polite when responding to you messages but I'm finding you, rather than helpful, extremely rude and ultimately like I'm being attacked. I welcome constructive criticism but the tone in which you write is very rude, I have not had this with anyone else I've spoke to on this forum or others so I don't believe it's because I'm being too sensitive. Please refrain from replying unless you're prepared to speak to me in a respectful manner.

Thank you.

 

I welcome support from more experienced owners and you have been helpful, but just because you're more experienced doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.

No one has been rude to you at all.

 

I welcome support from more experienced owners and you have been helpful, but just because you're more experienced doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.

 

No one has been rude to you at all.

Have to agree... compared to the way some of the threads go, this has been very civilized :2thumb:

Vixki, one of the issues in keeping reptiles is that you can interpret the general basics in more than one way. As we have discovered there are lots of ways to provide a basking spot of the ideal temperature, but some are more suited for one species of reptile than another. Learning is often a result of discovering the mistakes made, and it's far better for someone else to have learnt those lessons, and thus gained valuable experience rather than repeating them yourself.

As I mentioned above, you could receive advice and suggestions on how better to do things from people with that experience, but you don't have to accept it. However, often refusing to accept the suggestions, which is not criticizing you, more trying to educate you, could result in the reptile not getting the most out of its lice in captivity. In some cases it could lead to other issues including the health of the animal.

May I suggest you post a picture of your complete setup. Let others more experienced in this species than myself comment or make suggestions on things that could be changed, or need addressing for whatever reasons, and then it will be down to you to either take those suggestions on board and make the changes, or if you feel they are not required and you have addressed the needs to what you feel is adequate then that's down to you. If as a result of the latter the lizard develops a health issue for any reason, then you would have learnt from personal experience, and hopefully whatever the issue is can be reversed.

 

Going to chime in late here but Murrindindi and Wilks are absolutely right, CHE are in no way suitable as a 'basking bulb' for Beardies or diurnal lizards.

Not only do they not give out light, the type of heat they emit (far infra-red or IR-C) is not the correct type of heat for basking. They are great for warming the inside of a viv but for creating a focussed basking spot you want a flood bulb or halogen, which emit much more light (Beardies along with other Agamids and many other types of lizard possess 'pineal eyes' that are sensitive to light intensity and regulate basking behaviours) and emit a more useful type of heat for the animal - near infra-red or IR-A. This penetrates the animal's body tissues far more efficiently, and causes their cell mitochondria to emit ATP (photostimulation and photobiomodulation) which has several important knock-on effects.

Ceramics are fine for modulating background temperatures, but not for creating decent basking spots.

 

I noticed UVA wasn't refered to in this matter and has been introduced; unintentionally :whistling2:

 

UVb tubes also give off UVa anyway.

 

Thank you for your advice. We have ordered a basking bulb and necessary fitting etc, so we should have them in the next day or two.

 

Hi, so following your advice we have put in a basking bulb (attached pic) and he's not basked for the last 2 days, he seems to either stay on his hammock or go underneath it but he's definitely staying at the cooler end ,(26dc) of his tank. The basking are has been temperature has been upped from 35dc to 38dc. Any ideas? He's eating fine and his poo looks healthy.

 

Basking spot needs to be 46 at least or he will suffer long term.

 

Sorry that was meant to read, his basking area temperature....

 

Vixki,

That's interesting. Are you using an IR laser thermometer (temp gun) to measure those temperatures of the surface where he would normally bask? Did you replace the thermostat for a dimmer stat rather (I'm guessing the CHE was originally on a pulse proportional stat and you make no mention of any flashing)?

Could be one of several reasons, and in my case speculation. Maybe all the changes mean the lizard needs to settle again, maybe the thermometer you are using is not as accurate as it could be (or faulty), or maybe you have a lizard that prefers the cooler range, they are all individuals. I have a yearling Royal that seems to prefer the cool end of her viv to the hot end even after a feed, but she is otherwise fine. Her environmentals are exactly the same as the vivs above and below, and yet the royals in those thermoregulate throughout the day.

 

Thank you. We've just ordered one.
46d for basking spot seems very high. I've been reading from 35-42d?