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In search of the ideal substrate

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23K views 115 replies 26 participants last post by  RandyRowden  
#1 ·
Over the years I've kept my snakes on all manor of substrates, each having its own pros and cons.

Last summer I moved my collection over to Orchard bark in order to raise humidity and reduce dust (one of the main reasons orchard bark is promoted). Nine months on, and I'm looking again for something that's more suited. The problem is that bark is so dusty. As part of the monthly strip and clean I sieve and wash the bark in order to reduce the dust. Now using ceramics to heat the vivs may play a part in this, but humidity is typically 55% - 65% without spraying.

So what options are there? A Bio setup is out of the question, for one I don't have the option to rehouse the snakes whilst the sealant drys, and the wife is not keen on adding bugs inside the house (other then the ones she doesn't see under the floorboards :) ) - I feed in the viv, and ingestion of substrate has never been a problem, but I wouldn't want something that would swell inside the gut (such as some cat litter products.

Or have I simply been supplied a low grade product ? Any of your guys who use orchard bark experience this problem ?
 
#2 ·
Hi malc
I too use Orchid bark and have the same problem for my boas , I’ve tried everything too the eco earth was a nightmare for getting everywhere especially in the glass grooves and in the water dishes
, I also have to re soak it when I have a clean up, I feel the ceramic is the problem and feel the weight of the snakes also helps break it down faster, I don’t think there is really much more out there as you say
Looks great and does hold the humidity quite well so really don’t know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#3 · (Edited)
As above really ...

Thing is Orchid bark is soooo good as a substrate - holds as much or as little humidity as required - makes your snakes look fabulous and it makes the vivs and plants look great ..

When I open a new bag of Orchid bark I sieve all the dust out ... eventually it does break down of course but I'm pretty keen on regular spot cleaning so when it's necessary you can scoop it all out and sieve it again and put it back ... it just keeps the dust to a minimum until it's replaced as normal .
A quick fix is to get a couple of pieces of damp kitchen roll or an old damp cloth and wipe the viv floor this collects an awful lot of the dust then just chuck it away .



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R
#4 ·
I also use orchid bark for all my vivs, but as my largest vivs take 140 litres it works out been quite expensive. So what i do is mix a couple of bricks of coco coir in with the bark. Which bulks out the substrate and maintains a good humidity. The only problem is when the coir dries out is tend to get into the glass runners.
 
S
#6 ·
We keep our boa and retics on news paper. All have ceramic heaters (the boa has a tube heater in addition). In general this is ok for humidity - we know to spray the retics a bit more when they go into shed.

The boa was on orchid bark for a time, I really didn't like it and found that it dried and then turned dusty really quickly (plus the risk of ingesting big bits). I struggled to breath with the dry dusty air when I put my head in to clean out - so I figured it wouldn't be good for the snake either.

I think the best option is bio. But perhaps the same mix without bio active clean up would also make a good substrate. Some parts soil, bark, moss. to get the humidity right.

If you're using bark for humidity and dont like the bark you could try to raise humidity in an alternate way - e.g. block ventilation, use a moss box, spray daily, using a second/bigger water bowl?

I have gone round in circles about this.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the confirmation that the dust is normal with bark chippings. My main concern was that the dust was so fine it could cause irritation or at worse some form of RI.

I too buy 70ltr bags for around £25 delivered, which does all four of my vivs. It's strange that no matter how deep you layer up the bark, the snakes still push it around to expose the bottom of the viv.... and that's normally where they urinate :)
 
P
#9 · (Edited)
In recent months I have been experimenting with brassica oleracea capitata.
This wholely natural substance can be either shredded or left in its more normal, seperated form.
It is very natural looking, forming good burrowing opportunities, and produces no dust as it dries out. It is readily available on most high streets, and two large "heads" will easily cover the largest of vivs for around £3.
Whilst it is not very absorbent, individual "leaves" can be removed easily when soiled.
After around two weeks, the odour usually masks that of the wife's feet. :whistling2:
 
L
#12 ·
Interesting thread. I've been using aspen up to this point, so it's good to learn that orchid bark could raise humidity.
I've been using a moss box up to this point to compensate for 35% - 45% humidity (60w CHE in a 3x1.5x1.5), which I quite like because after the shed I put the moss into the vivarium to add some more natural materials/stimulation.

Speaking of natural stuff, I want to do some live planting. I think I will go for a peace lily - do you guys have any experience with live planting and, if so, what would you recommend for a potting mix and any other general advice?
 
#28 ·
Lagertha said:
Interesting thread. I've been using aspen up to this point, so it's good to learn that orchid bark could raise humidity.
I've been using a moss box up to this point to compensate for 35% - 45% humidity (60w CHE in a 3x1.5x1.5), which I quite like because after the shed I put the moss into the vivarium to add some more natural materials/stimulation.

Speaking of natural stuff, I want to do some live planting. I think I will go for a peace lily - do you guys have any experience with live planting and, if so, what would you recommend for a potting mix and any other general advice?
Click to expand...
The only time I had a viv (GTP) with live plants I used that coco fibre stuff , it came in a brick form that needed to be soaked in water in order to expand into a loose substrate.

Its widely available as general reptile substrate and I used it instead of soil , compost etc. in some heavy garden style plant pots, The coco fibre stuff was definitely more clean and versatile than soil
 
#13 · (Edited)
Malc , my 2p worth mate.

Likewise I've experimented with all manner of bedding options with the goal of allowing snakes an option to 'bury' themselves , plus aid in sloughing.

The problem for me with bark type substrate is they simply retain too much stale moisture 'under floor' and imo not absorbent enough.

One option I leaned towards was megazorb , its made from wood pulp , a by product from the paper making industry and its used for horse bedding.

http://www.northerncropdriers.co.uk/megazorb
 
#16 ·
Malc said:
Al, thanks for the suggestion.

Watching the video / testimony the woman in the clip kept banging on about the absorbency and the way it dries out moisture in other products. So how does this hold up where humidity is required?
Click to expand...
No worries , your welcome Malc.

Yep its the super absorbency that I appreciated and its ability to reduce odours is a nice bonus.
To be honest I never tried it in a reverse scenario ie retaining moisture , It has very little dust unlike traditional wood based substrates, which always helps if spraying substrates with water.

Another factor that attracts me is the comparatively low price per bale/sack and a little goes a long way, my local spot has it priced at £7.10 a pop :no1:: victory:
 
#17 ·
Whosthedaddy2 said:
No idea? Not sure I've ever found a an ideal substrate for all as some suit one and not another.



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Click to expand...
Good point mate , its all about what suits your species I guess.

For me personally I'm coming from mainly a colubrid viewpoint in terms of environment parameters
 
#18 ·
Nearest "official" supplier has the large bails for around £13, but have seen it advertised around the £8 mark, although googling the stuff seems to suggest that the cheaper stuff is more dusty, unless it was a batch issue.

I'm due to strip down and clean my vivs soon so will order some and see how it works out.
 
M
#19 ·
Just a word of warning from a former horse owner - not sure if Megazorb, but some horse bedding used to have essential oils or citronella added to it, to discourage horses from eating it and to help reduce flies... if you do get any, make sure you get the type that has nothing added to it.

I use lignocel for my corns. It's not dusty at all, plus if it gets wet it doesn't go mouldy. The only problem is that when wet, it sticks to everything like hell. The only regurge l've ever had from my female was when l fed her in her viv, she rolled the back end of the mouse in lignocel, which then completely blocked her mouth. She became so distressed she immediately threw up the mouse...

I also use the orchid bark for one part of the vivs to givemy snakes some variety, and l have to sieve it as well :-/

Used to use aspen but it was really dusty, plus would go mouldy pretty fast if water spilled on it.
 
#23 ·
MrsTim said:
Just a word of warning from a former horse owner - not sure if Megazorb, but some horse bedding used to have essential oils or citronella added to it, to discourage horses from eating it and to help reduce flies... if you do get any, make sure you get the type that has nothing added to it.

I use lignocel for my corns. It's not dusty at all, plus if it gets wet it doesn't go mouldy. The only problem is that when wet, it sticks to everything like hell. The only regurge l've ever had from my female was when l fed her in her viv, she rolled the back end of the mouse in lignocel, which then completely blocked her mouth. She became so distressed she immediately threw up the mouse...

I also use the orchid bark for one part of the vivs to givemy snakes some variety, and l have to sieve it as well :-/

Used to use aspen but it was really dusty, plus would go mouldy pretty fast if water spilled on it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads up:2thumb:, that's something I was unaware of re: equine bedding.
The megazorb had no odour , certainly not citronella , which makes me sneeze like crazy lol.

I used it for a full season with all my adults and saw no adverse effects.
 
#25 ·
Malc said:
Well I picked up a 85ltr bag of megazorb this afternoon and have changed the snakes over. Must say its an interesting product, looks like gravel, feels like paper.

The amount of dust that got thrown up whilst removing the bark chippings was unbelievable...hopefully that's now not a problem.
Click to expand...
I hope it works out well for you Malc , moreover here's hoping it suits your desired requirements:2thumb:

I agree its certainly is interesting aesthetics wise and the appearance doesn't match the feel/texture.
Malc in terms of the 'bark dust cloud' , how did you find the megazorb in comparison ? , I was always impressed with it in terms of (lack of) excess dust.

One thing I noticed almost instantly was the snakes positive reactions in terms of burying themselves , tunnelling and all manner of exploration into the substrate
 
#22 ·
richardhind said:
Interesting, I look forward to see the updates on how this performs with your snakes malc
Click to expand...
Interestingly I've not seen any changes in humidity since performing the change over this afternoon. According to the weather station base unit that's 5' from the vivs the ambient humidity in the room is 60% (been raining a lot outside today) - Humidity in the vivs are 59%, 67%, 61% and 62% so whilst it claims to be super absorbent it doesn't appear to be drawing moisture out of the atmosphere.

I'll update this thread in the weeks to come. It will be interesting to see whet happens when I feed as I feed in the viv and the food is normally warmed up in hat water an then towel dried.
 
#26 ·
Zincubus said:
I ordered 70 litres of Orchid bark off eBay for just £22.99 delivered.

Excellent !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Nice Result Zinc

If orchid bark suits your needs nothing beats buying the 70 litre sack mate
 
M
#35 ·
I'll be keeping an eye on the review, too :)

Was going to link the Megazorb website, then noticed Al has already done that. One think that l wondered about was the " superabsorbant" bit...I know some bedding can really dry out horses hooves ( and they are made of keratin, as are the snake's scales ).

On the other hand, it's a wood pulp, baked and then dust extracted ( 2 x according to the manufacturer:) ) , so definitely not dusty and l guess shouldn't cause problems if moistened a bit.

It can also be difficult to get hold of, the farm shops around me didn't stock it when l had horses ( and the price used to be around £12 which is a lot more than shavings ) .
 
#36 ·
Well tonight was feeding night, and as I warm the rats up in hot water had concerns of it sticking to the rats in a big way and being ingested. I always dry off the rats with kitchen towel before offering, and often a bark chip still got stuck.

Surprisingly, having tampered the megazorb down slightly it didn't adhere to the rat at all, and the prey was cleanly swallowed, not that I'm overly concerned if some did stick to the rat as it's a natural product and shouldn't cause any impacting issues.

So far I'm liking this product.
 
#41 ·
#43 ·
Yeah, I'm still using Megazorb, probably won't change it now as it does the job really well. Spot cleaning is simple and the product is very absorbent, but not to the point of reducing humidity levels. It also compacts down through the weight of the snake (I have adult royals and a boa) so the snake sits on it, but easily breaks up if it wants to burrow. I've also had no issues with ingestion.
 
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