ive been doing a fair bit of reading on reptile intelligence and there are various examples of some reptiles that perform detailed tasks better than most reptiles or mammals

examples include red footed tortoises learning by imitation and watching other animals try and fail at a task.. as well as the way they systematically search parts of a maze one at a time in order looking for the food and never checking the same section twice.. this turtle did better than rats which as everyone knows are highly intelligent

anoles have displayed intelligence by using problem solving to pushing and lifting containers to expose prey hidden underneath

and of course, monitors are the most intelligent, ive seen them perform many different feats that required problem solving skills that even most mammals tend to lack.. id love to get an ackie or medium size monitor (savannah, white throat, peach throat, etc) and attempt to train it or do some tests to see just how intelligent they can be

 

To the OP; do you ever place food inside those hollow balls?

 

No, there has never been food on, or in the ball, or even the scent. When starting the training the target was poked through the door of the viv when the lizard was expecting food and, being naturally interested in anything that enters, he came right over. As soon as he touches the target we use the clicker to signal the behavior has been completed and then he receives food. In the video he strikes at the target as if he thinks it is food. Sometimes he will do this, especially when first starting the session, presumably when he is most hungry, but other times he will simply touch it then wait for the reward. What we have also been doing since the video was taken is rather than remove the target then offer the food (he was tending to try to follow it as we were taking it away) we offer the food next to it, and he goes straight for that rather than continuing to try to eat the ball! This makes us believe that, while following the target sometimes appears to be a feeding response, the lizard does not in fact think the target is food, but simply associates touching it with receiving food, the essence of the training.

 

so, clicker training works on reptiles? i use it to train dogs but wasnt sure it would have the same effect on them

 

I have seen the experiments with tortoises, the results were very interesting. There has been a lot of work over the last few years that shows that birds are capable of far more than anyone ever expected and, while reptiles are unlikely to be at anything like that level, the assumption that they are simple animals running entirely on instinct is also proving to be outdated. Unfortunately, while there are the occasional experiments, there does not seem to be a huge amount of research going into disproving that at the moment.

As for the clicker training, we use a clicker for all our mammal and bird training so have automatically incorporated it into the reptile training as well. Whether they actually acknowledge the clicker or just make the association between the target and the food anyway is another thing, and difficult to prove without training several along side each other, some with and some without the clicker, and seeing if it actually makes a difference to the speed that they pick it up.

 

well im looking for a new reptile and i would love to experiment with training and cognition experiments to see just what they are capable of, thinking of a savannah or white throat monitor, they both seem to be very intelligent

ive been reading a lot about bird intelligence as well, especially corvid intelligence which im sure youre familiar with just how intelligent crows and ravens are, able to perform complex problem solving tasks on a more primate level

intelligence in animals is one of the characteristics i generally look for, i enjoy testing their limitations and will likely be experimenting with monitors shortly.. i have even been giving great consideration to crows/ravens for the same task.. im especially interest in their ability to speak and if they can associate speaking certain words with a certain reward

 

Would be very interested to hear how that goes if you go ahead with it.

As for corvids, yes I keep and train several species and am very familiar with their problem solving abilities. With their mimicry they can certainly be trained to mimic certain words or sounds on command for a reward. As for specific words for a specific reward, I don't see why not, however their mimicry is more limited than that of parrots, so this may be misleading in their ability to understand the concept. I would (and am intending to once I get the time to set it up) focus on something that achieved the same result (effectively communicating to ask for a specific reward/object) but without the need for mimicry, such as touching a specific symbol. On another note regarding mimicry, they will incorporate it into their own communication, using specific human words or a mimicked sound for their own specific meaning. Jays are well known for doing this in the wild as well as captivity in that they will use the call of a predator or other threat e.g. Cat, Tawny Owl, Carrion Crow etc as a "word" to inform others of the presence of that animal. If they encounter a threat not known to them before they seem to select one that bares the closest resemblance. An experiment with a temporarily captive, wild Jay done by myself several years ago found that on seeing a person in glasses the bird would mimic a tawny owl, seeing a person dressed in black it would mimic a crow. Another captive raised bird that had never seen an owl, but was familiar with domestic pets, announced the presence of an owl with the sound of a cat. I could go on but that is a different topic for a different thread.

 

Hi Dave

I'm getting some ackies in the not too distant future. Once they're in and settled, I'll try some touch training like yourself. Definitely seems interesting and your bosc picked it up very quickly!

I'll post the results.

Thanks

 

its always been a bit more difficult to tell what a reptile wants than it is for many mammals.. i doubt one will pick up its food bowl and bring it to me like my dog learned to do on her own with no attempts to train her to do so... so i was curious if reptiles could be trained to associate certain colors or objects with a specific reward so the reptile could use these things to express what it wants or needs from the owner..

this may be easier done with a tortoise or other vegetarian reptile, but if they associate one color with food, could they associate different colors with different types of food?.. would they be able to understand pushing one button gives them one type of food, like lettuce, while another color dispenses strawberries?

 

Reptiles in general are far less sociable than most mammals or birds, not really even interacting with their own species other than for breeding purposes, and for the most part not engaging in any maternal care, so even the concept of being able to ask their owner for something they need may be more difficult for them to grasp, not necessarily because of their intelligence, but just because of the way they view other animals. Foraging is more familiar to them, so interacting with their environment, such as coloured buttons, seems more likely and could be quite interesting. You would have to establish whether the animal has a particular favorite food beforehand though as it could be difficult to judge whether it is making a conscious choice about what it wants or just pressing buttons at random and eating whatever appears. Either way it gets a reward, so could push either. The point would be to prove that it is deliberately choosing the reward.

 

exactly what i was thinking

 

curious, which species of monitors do you think are most intelligent and trainable? im looking for a monitor but havent decided on which one yet

 

Honestly I don't have enough experience with different species to answer that. I currently have the Bosc and a pair of Ackies, all rescues. I have not yet attempted any training with the Ackies so don't know how they compare. They are also adults, so may take longer to pick it up anyway just because of that. I have previously worked with other Boscs and a couple of young Niles but never in this capacity. Hopefully someone with more experience with a variety of species will be able to share their opinion. In general though, high intelligence tends to come about through necessity to adapt. Maybe try looking into species that live in a variety of habitats or hunt a wide variety of prey species.

 

I know this is a dumb question but does anyone reckon you could train a crested gecko?

 

In what way do you want to train the animal?

 

Nah but I'll take a look, thanks!

 

where exactly do geckos land when it comes to reptile intelligence? many would agree monitors are at the top, but where do geckos and bearded dragons fall in?

 

I have/do keep both species but honestly have never worked with them in this manor to really find out. Certainly, as expected, their problem solving abilities seem to be lower than that of monitors eg. if a prey item escapes behind a log/rock etc a monitor will walk around the other side to find it, while geckos and beardies seem to just focus on the spot it was last seen until loosing interest. Other than that though the subject of reptile intelligence seems to be poorly studied so I don't think there is really any sort of scale of who is smarter than who in place as there is with mammals, and to a certain extent birds. Nobody has really looked into it, so nobody knows. There is plenty of claims from owners about what their pets can do, some of which could prove valuable, but often owners are prone to misinterpreting their animal's behavior, and what may seem like intelligent behavior to them may in fact be simple instinct or coincidence.

 

i can certainly agree with that, ive seen many reptile owners claim their pet reptile was playing with an object while they could have very well likely just been trying to eat it.. but there is no doubt it seems monitors are on the top and with the smallest monitor species being as small as geckos (though im not sure these ones are in the pet trade yet) and ackies requiring roughly the same care requirements as beardeds, i see no reason not go focus my efforts primarily on monitors

though, it would be nice to develop some kind of a criteria in which we can start to measure reptile intelligence by and come up with a chart or hierarchy based on certain feats of intelligence

 

Hi, in what sense do Varanus acanthurus require roughly the same care as Bearded dragons?

 

blackthroat (lets not get into the name thing plz) pick up instructions quick, they also use their brain in a useful way, ackies don't have a much depth to them in a brain power way compared to a Blackthroat.

Niles are intelligent but prefer routine in order to protect themselves, so they are always stand offish to new experiences & learn by expanding their circle outwards slowly.

Freckles again are standoffish & no where near as intelligent as Blackthroat again, Argus are very intelligent , but their feeding response gets in the way of using their brains, so they end up looking pretty bone headed at times lol.

B/t don't give up>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzpBJqoVvVw

 

You cannot measure an animal`s intelligence simply by comparing a few individuals or species over relatively short periods based simply on them being "standoffish" or bold, or by their feeding response?
ALL species/individuals that I`ve kept prefer routine rather than constant changes, particularly in their environment (being very familiar with their "home range" even if it is only the enclosure).

 

never really checked out the speed of a bearded dragon, move pretty fast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqGJ9w54to&nohtml5=False

 

what keepers thoughts on viv size after seeing this vid, just wondering :2thumb::2thumb:

 

I like your style :lol2:
Don't tell Robert, but my Lenny thought his mons attempt was a bit lame, Lenny says you do it like this>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwXn1ldFeDY

Not sure Lenny read the instructions fully