Suncured Oat Hay, Suncured Timothy Hay, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Whole Ground Wheat, Escarole, Endive, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, Dandelion Greens (dried), Sodium Bicarbonate, Soy Lecithin, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (heat stable cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Aspergillus oryzae), Yeast Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Garlic Extract, Anise Extract, Cassia Extract (Chinese), Ginger Extract, Horseradish Extract, Juniper Extract, Natural Flavoring, Marigold (petal extract), Yucca schidigera (whole plant powder), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of stabilized Vitamin C), Zinc Methionine Complex, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement (Retinyl Acetate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (source of Vitamin B5), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.


When you remove all the red/unnecessary and possibly harmful stuff, there's not a lot left is there? Even then, given that most hermanns don't like stuff with grass in, it would not be suitable for all species. Too much grass for hermanns and not enough for leos, sulcatas etc. If someone gave me a box of this I would bin it but others might tell you differently

 

To be Honest I have the exact same attitude about pelleted tortoise foods but was just asking as a friend had mentioned grassland pellets being good as they contain stuff that isn't easy to get.

 

if you just want a pellet to bulk out food or add extra fiber then have a look at the Pre Alpine Cobs, they need soaking and mixing in with greenery at least to begin with to get the tort to eat them. Here's the link to where you can read about and buy, another alternative in the complete food pellet range is Mazuri or Nutrazu (uk version) its harder to find but some members buy in bulk and sell the supplus, many of the more experienced keepers are now using these, again soaked, alongside greenery, even those members who were set against pellets a few years back.
Tortoise Lady - Pre Alpin Foods

 

if you just want a pellet to bulk out food or add extra fiber then have a look at the Pre Alpine Cobs, they need soaking and mixing in with greenery at least to begin with to get the tort to eat them. Here's the link to where you can read about and buy, another alternative in the complete food pellet range is Mazuri or Nutrazu (uk version) its harder to find but some members buy in bulk and sell the supplus, many of the more experienced keepers are now using these, again soaked, alongside greenery, even those members who were set against pellets a few years back.
Tortoise Lady - Pre Alpin Foods

I have presently been experimenting (for want of a better word) with these with a few youngsters, just to keep the ones saying 'you don't know if you don't try' happy. They have a very high grass content though and although my tortoises will take a mouthful as they possibly smell nice, they soon gag and try to scrape the hay like bits away, when they walk away and leave them, so still not convinced there is a suitable alternative to decent whole food. Why would you want to bulk out food at this time of year anyway, when the aim is for them not to be gaining weight.

 

The breakdown of ingredients for Mazuri/Nutrazu (copied and pasted from a post on this Forum). Have a look with the Search facility. The ingredients don't differ much from those above - do you really want to feed your tortoises, or indeed any animal, the following:-

Ingredients: Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane molasses, brewers' dried yeast, soybean oil, wheat germ, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chioride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, pyri- doxine hydrochloride, D-alpha tocopheryl acetate, cholecalciferol, biotin, calcium pantothenate, ethoxyquin (a preservative), vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, L-lysine, nicotinicacid, thiamine mononitrate, cyanocobalamin, folic acid, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite. 30% roughage products ground soybean hulls


Crude protein (min) 15.00%
Crude fat (min) 3.00%
Crude fiber (max) 18.00%
Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.95%
Calcium (Ca) (max) 1.45%
Phosphorus (P) (min.) 0.60%
Sodium (NA) (max) 0.60%

 

two easily predicted replies from members set against pellets, however do a bit of research especially those equally well respected experienced members that are using them and make up your own mind, you'll find the 'antis' on any forum. There is a member selling Mazuri on shelled warriors at the moment but I don't know how much he has for sale most who sell have to buy in bulk from europe as its to costly for a small amount.

 

Glad I didn't disappoint!

Take a look at that person's thread on here and you will find some information (as I did) regarding Mazuri. Again, there are several posts discussing the ingredients in it - surely it is not what tortoises should be fed.

OP - have you being feeding Florette salad whilst weeds are in short supply especially as its probably been a lot colder in Scotland than the south of England currently - although very wet it is relatively mild and weeds are coming through now.

 

Med tortoises don't generally eat a lot of grass.:0)
Why use pellets when you really don't know whats in them. When weeds are free and far better for tortoises.
There is a big sell from the US for pelleted foods, because most have too many animals to feed fresh better foods. So will always go for the easy option.
But I want whats best for my tortoises and what they would eat in the wild.
But each to their own:0)

 

Italian (white) Bread: Enriched flour (wheat flour, barley malt, niacin, iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, sugar, contains less than 2% of the following: soybean oil, fermented wheat flour, yeast, salt, wheat protein isolate, wheat gluten, dough conditioners (acetylated tartaric acid esters of mono- and diglycerides, ammonium sulfate, calcium sulfate, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, potassium iodate, amylase [enzymes]), sodium stearoyl-2-lactylate, lactic acid, sulfites, mineral oil.

Would you eat a Subway sandwich?

If yes, you cannot go all 'holier than thou' over pellet food for tortoises.

 

I can go all 'holier than thou' as I have never eaten a Subway sandwich nor have any intention of ever doing so. I have never eaten KFC either, and the last Burger King I had the misfortune to have to have, as there was nothing else available, was when driving back from the Turtle Conference two years ago. Prior to that it was after our local group went to London Zoo. I haven't eaten a McDonalds for at least ten years.

 

well I suppose if all that is fed is lettuce then there'd not be much chance of them getting fat, we don't gain weight on water and not much else so doubt they would. Its not really worth you and I 'discussing' as you will never change your mind and I will always be open to other ideas and methods, I don't and never will consider a 'lettuce' diet sufficient and as for keeping them 'naturally' I don't see many fields of lettuce where the torts would be in the wild, anymore than fields of pellets. My Ibera, both hatchlings and adults would eat either the baby or adult pre alpine providing it was well mixed in with their greens and always soaked I never tried it dry, and I often saw them grazing grass when outside in the summer but I only ever had Ibera so maybe Hermans are different.

 

What - who said anything about a lettuce only diet?

I mentioned Florette salad until the OP could grow or find some weeds.

Ours are fed Florette when the weeds aren't around are they are covered with snow!

We have plenty of weeds around at the moment, and I have several varieties growing in trays/pots/containers - after all I am a self employed gardener so like to thank I know how to grow weeds and flowers, and know what from another!

 

I'm sure there are many people who hear 'florrettes lettuce' and think that's sufficient as a diet, Florrettes is mentioned so many times, and you yourself are saying that's all you feed untill your weeds grow or you can get out to pick some, that could be weeks. I know how long it takes to grow weeds and also that its pretty near impossible to grow enough to provide all year round, at least in trays. I had a area of garden set aside and even that didn't really suffice, luckily the torts had big enclosures with food plants already growing and the adults were hibernated in the winter. However I do believe that for those that aren't so clever as some at finding/growing food and do resort to the good old Florrettes then adding a couple of either complete or cobs can improve a very poor diet. One more thing because they contain the needed vits/minerals and also D3 they reduce the need for other supplements which again many may not always bother with.

 

It's Florette Crispy Salad Anne, which is a mix of salad leaves. There are many Florette mixes that are not suitable for tortoise consumption, but the Crispy version is a good mix. If you like to call them all lettuce that is fine, but you will find that many of the leaves eaten in the wild also come under that category - rocket, mizunaa, endive etc etc Many of these leaves are very rich in vitamins if grown well, so not sure where the vit question is coming from. The vits in Mazuri are added anyway and we are all more than capable of doing that via Nutrobal, Nekton etc

 

Obviously not clear - we have weeds around at the moment so they are mixed in with the Florette. They have been fed Florette on its own I should think about a dozen days since Christmas.

I would not want to feed the ingredients that are in Mazuri/Nutrazu.

We did have some Komodo pellets several years ago to give and they wouldn't touch them. Even the turtles wouldn't hence the all year round growing of weeds.

 

ok but just because you don't want to use them, which is fine, its not fair to be judgemental to those who do wish to try them, a bit like being judgemental about other peoples diets. We are all different and lead different lives and aren't the choices people make for themselves up to them?, sorry but I also thought that pellets are the best diet for turtles again along with greens, bugs etc, when we had ours they were fed a varity of foods but when in the pond they had plenty of food but I always 'topped' them up with a good pellet food. This advice I found again through the various forums and from people I considered experts.

 

If keepers choose to use pellets that's their choice. But most will feed pellets because its easier, and they have no idea of whether they are good or bad. Or which pellets to feed, as I gather some are better than others.
Some feed because zoos do, which is not a good recommendation, as a lot of zoos have no interest in getting feeding or conditions correct.
Recommending pellets to ill informed keepers, is bad in my opinion. If they have experience on husbandry, they are usually better informed and its an informed choice.

 

I use to have good results feeding this (https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/tortoise-diet) mixed with soaked readigrass and dusted with a good calcium supplement, when i used to keep tortoises

 

Which species? Do you have pics of these good results? Where are they now? I'm a bit concerned about the way they state that there is less waste with these pellets. Tortoises need a fibrous diet that produces bulky stools, something doesn't quite sound right there!

 

deleted

 

Oh - I missed this post, and now I'll never know what it said!

 

I've highlighted in Blue some of your red highlights. These are all vitamins and minerals in their scientific named form surely you cannot say these are bad as this is how they are found in nature. They sound scary but are not.
Alfalfa seems good tome it's a vegetable product. Also as you should know the lower down the list the smaller the quantity of the product.


My torts health has improved immensely since feeding Mazuri as 'part' of a balanced diet. I've also fed it exclusively to some torts who have deformed jaws until they grew sufficiently to be able to take veggies with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SueBoyle
Suncured Oat Hay, Suncured Timothy Hay, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Whole Ground Wheat, Escarole, Endive, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, Dandelion Greens (dried), Sodium Bicarbonate, Soy Lecithin, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (heat stable cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Aspergillus oryzae), Yeast Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Garlic Extract, Anise Extract, Cassia Extract (Chinese), Ginger Extract, Horseradish Extract, Juniper Extract, Natural Flavoring, Marigold (petal extract), Yucca schidigera (whole plant powder), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of stabilized Vitamin C), Zinc Methionine Complex, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement (Retinyl Acetate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (source of Vitamin B5), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.


When you remove all the red/unnecessary and possibly harmful stuff, there's not a lot left is there? Even then, given that most hermanns don't like stuff with grass in, it would not be suitable for all species. Too much grass for hermanns and not enough for leos, sulcatas etc. If someone gave me a box of this I would bin it but others might tell you differently

 

I've highlighted in Blue some of your red highlights. These are all vitamins and minerals in their scientific named form surely you cannot say these are bad as this is how they are found in nature. They sound scary but are not.
Alfalfa seems good tome it's a vegetable product. Also as you should know the lower down the list the smaller the quantity of the product.


My torts health has improved immensely since feeding Mazuri as 'part' of a balanced diet. I've also fed it exclusively to some torts who have deformed jaws until they grew sufficiently to be able to take veggies with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SueBoyle [URL="http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif"]image[/URL]
Suncured Oat Hay, Suncured Timothy Hay, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Whole Ground Wheat, Escarole, Endive, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, Dandelion Greens (dried), Sodium Bicarbonate, Soy Lecithin, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (heat stable cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Aspergillus oryzae), Yeast Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Garlic Extract, Anise Extract, Cassia Extract (Chinese), Ginger Extract, Horseradish Extract, Juniper Extract, Natural Flavoring, Marigold (petal extract), Yucca schidigera (whole plant powder), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of stabilized Vitamin C), Zinc Methionine Complex, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement (Retinyl Acetate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (source of Vitamin B5), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.


When you remove all the red/unnecessary and possibly harmful stuff, there's not a lot left is there? Even then, given that most hermanns don't like stuff with grass in, it would not be suitable for all species. Too much grass for hermanns and not enough for leos, sulcatas etc. If someone gave me a box of this I would bin it but others might tell you differently

Yes, I am well versed in vitamin efficacy, part of my job requirements. To add so many as supplements to hat is supposed to be a healthy diet, seemed a bit odd. Alfalfa is very high protein which is why I avoid it like the plague. Hermanns wouldn't eat it anyway.

 

It's the one above did not realise I was signed in as Boxman oops

 

Oh ok fair enough!

 

Actually this thread has probably, in my opinion, run its course and we are just going to have to agree there are some very differing opinions.

I did find this via Google search written by someone who I think we would all call an experienced and knowledgeable keeper who resides on another Forum although a rather dated post:

i'm still lucky enough to be finding enough weeds to feed 8 tortoises sometimes bulking out with romaine and other supermarket food. i know ******* will say something about nutritional value Wink i'm happy with how i feed my anilmals and won't feed manufactured muck that in my opinion has not been around long enough for people to be able to make such positive statements about it. How can one food be fed to such a large range of species with different diet requirements be good for each and every one?
****************knows my views on this so i know he will know i mean no offence

and

....i don't think it is long enough, and i wonder how many times the formula has changed in 25 years, and as far as i was aware it was made to "head start" Galapogus tortoises before release not to be fed their whole lives exclusively. How can it be fed to a redfoot and lets say a greek and be good for both when there dietry needs are completely different?

I have **** out references to other tortoise keepers (the number of * aren't a clue to a name though!)

Back to the OP - Connor it is your decision!

 

What I like about some of these threads is the 'likes'. The consistency is predictable and in no way reflects the information given, just who has posted them. Oh the things we find to do when school hols are looming LOL

 

You could say there is a difference between them eating poo (either their own or each others) and being feed a s**tty processed diet.

Perhaps that is why I'm not interested in Subway, KFC and the likes - I don't eat poo so naturally don't want to be fed it :lol2:

 

ROTFL, I never thought of it like that.: victory:

 

Straying off topic slightly as this is turtles and not tortoises, I have just seen this advertised:

Savory Stew - £9.99

40% protein. You heat up and can then freeze it. Again American and lots of "interesting" ingredients - but its not fit for human consumption!

It is a worry with all these high protein diets about.

 

Dont know you about you, but I often keep a tub of zoo-med box turtle food in the desk for an afternoon snack, so this is going to be useless for me.

 

Might be opening a can of worms, but why are pellets often recommended for aquatic turtles and box turtles but not Tortoises?

Looking at the back of reptomin (often quoted as a suitable pellet-which I use myself) the ingredients list is vague at best.

 

Might be opening a can of worms, but why are pellets often recommended for aquatic turtles and box turtles but not Tortoises?

Looking at the back of reptomin (often quoted as a suitable pellet-which I use myself) the ingredients list is vague at best.

Perhaps turtle keepers are less dogmatic and more practical minded than Med. tortoise keepers?

 

Savory Stew - £9.99 I thought it might have been one of those delicious camping meals in a bag, untill I looked :mf_dribble: