[dcap]

I also think that the cash breeders who've now left are probably too smart to try Carpets or BTS or anything if they've been burned by the Banana Ball Python ... it is the 'next' generation of breeders that will take up the next thing.

I didn't know it was Kevin at Nerd that crashed the Banana price. All I knew was the UK end later on and the morph going from £10k to £1k in one season due to one UK seller.

It would be amazing if the next big thing was BIG VIVS, rocky backgrounds, UVB for snakes (?), automatic watering systems, bioactive substrate (whether that one is a good idea or not, I don't know?), live plants, who can build the best homemade vivs.

 

[loxocemus]

have u seen those resin backgrounds the americans can get, their gorgeous, there's something similar here for aquariums but nowhere near the depth complexity and gorgeousness of those yank ones.

rgds
ed

I also think that the cash breeders who've now left are probably too smart to try Carpets or BTS or anything if they've been burned by the Banana Ball Python ... it is the 'next' generation of breeders that will take up the next thing.

I didn't know it was Kevin at Nerd that crashed the Banana price. All I knew was the UK end later on and the morph going from £10k to £1k in one season due to one UK seller.

It would be amazing if the next big thing was BIG VIVS, rocky backgrounds, UVB for snakes (?), automatic watering systems, bioactive substrate (whether that one is a good idea or not, I don't know?), live plants, who can build the best homemade vivs.

 

[dcap]

have u seen those resin backgrounds the americans can get, their gorgeous, there's something similar here for aquariums but nowhere near the depth complexity and gorgeousness of those yank ones.

I think so. I've also seen YouTube 'how to' make rock background with wire and papermache (I think) and then kinda 'concrete' textured. Or also done by cutting insulating foam to shape and coating. My concern there is cleaning gravelly stuff? Sure, bioactive and cleanup crew 'could' do that. But I'm not convinced I'm going bioactive, I may just go planted. Snakes do poop wherever they want - I might favour a painted background then sealed and attach some branches as I think it would be easier to maintain and change.

 

[loxocemus]

florida/brooks would be cool to see get their chance in the limelight, their such nice all-rounders.

re carpets their clutch size was their undoing i think, their the corns of the pythons, young breeders eggs everywhere and fast growers, and too fast too big to beat out the convenient ball.

those liophis are nice they could rival garters, there's lots of them, great variety and easy keepers.

iv always admired the dart hobby (180!) the effort they put into those little corners of nature, its almost as if they add the frogs as an afterthought. (they make good gecko keepers, especially day geckos)

rgds
ed

Rumour a while ago was that Carpet Pythons would be the next trend. But they bit a lot as babies - so that would be a different scene and might see 'reptile gloves' as a new product! Doesn't look like it happened. Probably as they need nice big cages and some (especially the Bredli) need UV to show their colors off best. Maybe the Jag (is that the defective gene?) has paused that.

With Balls - my guess would be that the keeping/breeding of them will reduce. And split into two:
- keeping Normals/Pastels/Lessers (Spiders) as pets, and anyone wanting to breed would then be keeping or swapping them with their buddies, very little cash would change hands. In a way this could be good as fewer people would be breeding and would be breeding them for the challenge, for fun, to see what its like - but they'd breed one pair. You know, like um, kind of snake keeping!!
- high end morphs, probably being swapped between high end breeders, maybe international trade (until the UK/EU border becomes a tax border)

I've also heard that BTS is the next big thing, but you don't see many of them offered for sale - in shops.

I'd like it to be 'variety' next ... if someone has 5x snakes, maybe they'd be 5x species. From a Hognose to a Boa with a decent sized enclosure. I get such different reaction from my Floridas, my Trinkets, my Bamboos, my Royas, my Hogs - but I am aiming for pairs of everything I have (as homemade pairs).

 

[loxocemus]

u know what i thought would make a nice background, one of these Artificial Ivy Screening on Willow Trellis 2x1m Fence Hedge Maple Leaf Decor its like zero effort,
no maintenance, hard to mess with, and u could spray the bejesus out of it during a shed.

rgds
ed

I think so. I've also seen YouTube 'how to' make rock background with wire and papermache (I think) and then kinda 'concrete' textured. Or also done by cutting insulating foam to shape and coating. My concern there is cleaning gravelly stuff? Sure, bioactive and cleanup crew 'could' do that. But I'm not convinced I'm going bioactive, I may just go planted. Snakes do poop wherever they want - I might favour a painted background then sealed and attach some branches as I think it would be easier to maintain and change.

 

[dcap]

u know what i thought would make a nice background, one of these Artificial Ivy Screening on Willow Trellis 2x1m Fence Hedge Maple Leaf Decor its like zero effort,
no maintenance, hard to mess with, and u could spray the bejesus out of it during a shed.

My lot (the colubrids anyway) are going to get a 'swamp box' to visit during shed (or any other day) as I'm not a believer in spraying - high humidity is the devil in my book. But I only have 1-2 species that like something other than fairly dry. Different solutions per species of course.

Garden centres are going to be fun. I've already seen path/border/fencing stuff that I need to check for sharp bits at a fraction of snake shop decor.

IKEA also do some nice plastic plants! But I will try (and possibly fail) with live plants. To suit the humidity requirement of the snakes. So, succulents for the Rosy Boas (which will be removed and watered once a week or removed for a week per month). While I think they'll all get plants, they will be in pots and removable rather than built in - and I think I have a solution for them being dug up by the snake?

 

[Addymk2]

My lot (the colubrids anyway) are going to get a 'swamp box' to visit during shed (or any other day) as I'm not a believer in spraying - high humidity is the devil in my book. But I only have 1-2 species that like something other than fairly dry. Different solutions per species of course.

Garden centres are going to be fun. I've already seen path/border/fencing stuff that I need to check for sharp bits at a fraction of snake shop decor.

IKEA also do some nice plastic plants! But I will try (and possibly fail) with live plants. To suit the humidity requirement of the snakes. So, succulents for the Rosy Boas (which will be removed and watered once a week or removed for a week per month). While I think they'll all get plants, they will be in pots and removable rather than built in - and I think I have a solution for them being dug up by the snake?

One alternative is to create a false water table... Multple layers of sub, sheeting, clay balls and a feeder pipe that only waters the balls

 

[Uromastyxman]

As a footnote:

This week one of my new builders had heard that I keep reptiles and he wanted to show me a video of his snake and set up. I looked at the video and I could see what looked like an adult Royal python in an inadequately sized 2 foot long by 18" deep viv. I'm not a royal keeper so I could not see what morph it was, however, it was corkscrewing so much it was spinning. I said "is it a spider?" he said "yes" He went on to describe it corkscrewing and stargazing. He said he didn't know why the snake behaved in this way but that the person who sold him the snake said it was normal. Interesting that I was able to identify the morph in this way?

He had never heard of the terms corkscrewing or stargazing, so the seller had obviously not informed him that there might be "Issues"

I know nothing about the myriad royal morphs that are out there, but I am interested to know how many morphs have genes within them that may have come from spiders that could lead to grotesque physical abnormalities such as these? Could a kind Royal person list them please?

All the "Snake lovers" and "reptile enthusiasts" out there who have chosen to give life to these snakes and disregard, or not even consider how these issues may impact the animal's quality of life, epitomize the lack of the most basic regard and respect that should be afforded to these creatures that are in our care. I have been saying for years that changes need to be made in reptile keeping to raise standards and I've received mostly hostility. Well it is not people like me who wan't to improve standards that are going to compromise reptile keeping, it is the people who think breeding and maintaining animals in this way is acceptable.

And so the "governing bodies" do nothing to discourage this kind of unethical breeding and we just carry on do we? Let's all sit back for a front row seat to see just how bad things can get in reptile keeping, because it would appear that anything goes.

 

[loxocemus]

this might be of some help but its not spider specific, i know any "bee" is a spider cross OWALReptiles - Issues

rgds
ed

As a footnote:

This week one of my new builders had heard that I keep reptiles and he wanted to show me a video of his snake and set up. I looked at the video and I could see what looked like an adult Royal python in an inadequately sized 2 foot long by 18" deep viv. I'm not a royal keeper so I could not see what morph it was, however, it was corkscrewing so much it was spinning. I said "is it a spider?" he said "yes" He went on to describe it corkscrewing and stargazing. He said he didn't know why the snake behaved in this way but that the person who sold him the snake said it was normal. Interesting that I was able to identify the morph in this way?

He had never heard of the terms corkscrewing or stargazing, so the seller had obviously not informed him that there might be "Issues"

I know nothing about the myriad royal morphs that are out there, but I am interested to know how many morphs have genes within them that may have come from spiders that could lead to grotesque physical abnormalities such as these? Could a kind Royal person list them please?

All the "Snake lovers" and "reptile enthusiasts" out there who have chosen to give life to these snakes and disregard, or not even consider how these issues may impact the animal's quality of life, epitomize the lack of the most basic regard and respect that should be afforded to these creatures that are in our care. I have been saying for years that changes need to be made in reptile keeping to raise standards and I've received mostly hostility. Well it is not people like me who wan't to improve standards that are going to compromise reptile keeping, it is the people who think breeding and maintaining animals in this way is acceptable.

And so the "governing bodies" do nothing to discourage this kind of unethical breeding and we just carry on do we? Let's all sit back for a front row seat to see just how bad things can get in reptile keeping, because it would appear that anything goes.

 

[Uromastyxman]

Cheers Ed, I'll have a look.

 

[Malc]

Read between the lines

I was googling and came across this

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/2015/08/20/spending-on-spinning-spiders-silly/

Whilst its not an input to this thread from a commercial breeder that we were hoping for, it's as close as any "statement" can be. But I still feel that the true picture is hidden within the article

Read between the lines from a monetary position...

The Spider could easily be the most pivotal and important morph ever discovered. Not just because of what it was, but because of when. It’s a morph that gave rise to the hobby that we enjoy today. Many newcomers forget that we initially had a very small original palette of morphs and most were recessive. The Spider gene created the very first codom combos that looked nothing like regular Ball Pythons. Imagine what could be possible with a gene like this?!

Suddenly, amazing combos were available to the masses who didn’t want to fiddle with “Hets” and the years of work recessives require.** When we saw Kevin’s first Bumblebee, many of us realized that it really could be possible to create combos that were beyond our wildest dreams!

Imagine what could be possible with a gene like this?!

And how much money could be made....

When we saw Kevin’s first Bumblebee, many of us realized that it really could be possible to create combos that were beyond our wildest dreams!

Could read

many of us realized that it really could be possible to become rich beyond our wildest dreams!

Prejudice – Like it or not, many new enthusiasts view the Spider not for the titan it has been, but simply as one flawed mutation out of hundreds of good choices. As a breeder who sells offspring, I do keep market trends in mind.

Or simply that with so much ill feeling about the spider gene, with prices falling there is no longer the money in the gene and more money is to be had in playing with the newer genes.

 

[Uromastyxman]

I was googling and came across this

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/2015/08/20/spending-on-spinning-spiders-silly/

Whilst its not an input to this thread from a commercial breeder that we were hoping for, it's as close as any "statement" can be. But I still feel that the true picture is hidden within the article

Read between the lines from a monetary position...




And how much money could be made....


Could read





Or simply that with so much ill feeling about the spider gene, with prices falling there is no longer the money in the gene and more money is to be had in playing with the newer genes.

Cheers, Malc it looks very interesting.