Will be watching this thread as well always want to learn more about hognoses. Iam currently using coco fibre in their moist hide, is easy to keep moist and they seem to love it

Snaking around

 

I am thinking of maybe trying to use damp hummus ...

I must be a newbie- I immediately had the mental image of somebody dunking their snake in dip. :whistling2:

I've not heard of a snake being allergic to anything, but I suppose it must happen. I hope you get it sorted out, whatever it is.

 

I have tried various substrates with her and we always get the same results of wheezing when in the humid hide. I have always used moss for the humid hide as I kind of assumed this would be the best thing to use as this seems to be what the majority of people use. Someone has said she could be allergic to the moss ? I am thinking of maybe trying to use damp hummus (coco fibre) in the humid hide to see what this would do but I am concerned that it maybe worse than the moss due to the smell of it and how fine it is. Maybe you can suggest a better alternative for the hide ? Her substrate is aspen at the moment and this seems to suit her, she spends lots of time burrowing and staying underneath it.

Thanks.

Hey Red,
I think that moss is not a suitable substrate for a humid hide. What the majority of people use and what is actually good for our reptiles are 2 different thing entirely. Do these animals burrow through mounds of sphagnum moss in nature? No, nothing even close to it.

So, the reason why moss is no good is because it is actually wet and not humid. There is a difference. What you see going on with the noises your hogs are making is condensation in the nostrils. I have seen this before as well. It will not be harmful but people automatically think it is causing a URI. I can promise you, it is not. However, when a hognose uses a proper humid hide, they will not get a condensation build up and will not have water in the nostrils. You also want your humid hide box to be in a cooler area in the viv.

As I advised HerbsParents, the better substrate would be coco fiber. It is easy to use and works properly. I have advised many keepers that using coco fiber is far better and it is amazing how mamy people made the switch and will never go back to using moss. Both for humid hides and nest boxes.

 

Bit confusing. Are you saying totally dry coco fibre is going to provide a moist hide? Or does it need to be wetted first?

And Surely, if you place a humid hide in a cool area of the viv, condensation is going to unavoidable? I dont understand how something that isnt wet, or holding water, is going to provide humidity.

 

Gregg just out of interest,can you describe your set up? Heating,substrate etc? please.

 

See, now this is the type of question that should be asked.

My set ups vary from species to species. Most of my hogs are in rack systems however, I do have a few that I keep in very naturalistic cages.

The racks are set up simply. A water dish, aspen bedding, and a humid hide on the cool end. They are heated with heat tape and thermostatically controlled. Temps on the basking are set to 95 degrees.

My breeder females who are about to lay eggs are set up in a rack system where the bins are filled 3/4 of the way with damp coco fiber with a platform on top of it so the snake can go in or out. This allows the female full cage nesting which is far better than just adding a nest box.

 

Is this humid hide for a troubled shedder. Or are you using a humid hide as standard, just a question not a criticism. It's something I have never had to use in a hognose Viv.

 

It is for everyday use. Humid hides are not just for shedding.

 

Ok cheers for reply. Always interested how other people keep things.

 

Interesting thread this, Red have you always had problems with your hoggie and moist hides??

Personally speaking with my own female hoggie she has a permenant moist hide in her enclosure (only other one with a moist hide is my housie), I use either moss or eco earth which is kept damp but not soppying wet, this hide has been in her enclosure for near enough the length of time I've owned her (3 years), she definitely makes good use of it and not once have I had any bother with her and RIs or anything.

 

Yes she has always been like this with her humid hide which is why I only pop it in when she is in deep blue. She is just over 2 years so this is an on going thing. But as I have said I have always used moss so will try a hide with coco fibre in and see what this results in.

 

My Loxocemus are the only snakes that have moist/humid hides.

 

well this is a strange one, moss or coco, fight! um no, no need.

iv spent the last 10 years or more keeping species that live "in" humid substrates, not just visiting a box of it when the mood takes them so iv used sphagnum and coco extensively, iv used mixes of both, iv added vermiculite perlite, top soil, chopped moss yada yada, all sorts of ratios and mixes and grades of ingredients.

so heres what i know, sphagnum is capable of being as wet or as dry as u wish, wet only surface moisture moss, seriously?

coco is capable of being as wet or as dry as u wish.

they both make fine humid hide substrates, their both as good as each other as humid media. coco makes a slightly better "diggers" substrate if thats what the species is interested in, as its more "soil like", moss makes a slightly better cover/hide material for species that like a nice moist matt to sleep under.

if u want a moist hide whose purpose is "moisture only" then both sphagnum moss and coco will do "equally as well" as each other, ur animals will show no differences as a result of either choice.

if however u want a media that allows some digging, some "chamber like" retention, for oh i dunno egg laying then obviously coco has the edge, and no this is not because of any supposed superior moisture capability's its simply because its comprised of smaller particles and acts more like a soil, whereas sphagnum moss is made up of long fibers and isn't so easy to "dig" thru. though it has been used, and is used, by countless keepers for countless species for egg laying with eggcelent results (see what i did there).

so coco or moss?, answer, both or either, but ur choice will not make u a better keeper than someone who chooses differently.

rgds
ed

 

Gregg Rick just likes to pick arguments, ALL the time and in nearly every thread.

Oh and if I ask a specific Ask Gregg M a question thread, it'll be Can I have one of your hoggies, pretty please lol.

 

Oh and if I ask a specific Ask Gregg M a question thread, it'll be Can I have one of your hoggies, pretty please lol.

Anything for you Ailsa.:2thumb:

 

And just a side note and another reason why I do not recommend sphagnum moss.

Pulmonary sporotrichosis is an illness caused by a fungus called Sporothrix schenckii that specifically and COMMONLY grows in sphagnum moss dead or living, treated and not treated.

 

Right on that note I'm now never using it again, I actually never knew that :gasp:

 

Hey Greg

Do you have any pics of your natural setup? Looking for inspiration

 

his top piece for egglaying hogs is quite ingenious, simple but effective, the only components are the substrate and the "lid" i believe.

ed

 

As usual a thread on here with bitchy attacks:bash: Why don't people just accept people keep snakes in different ways, now I don't breed hognoses so don't have Greggs experience but I have had hognoses in my lot for about 20yrs, I have never used a humid hide with them as I have never felt the need. I must say though if I have a humid hide for anyone I do use spag it works for me and my snakes. People need to READ (even real books), RESEARCH, LISTEN RESPECTIVELY and then make there own decisions based on that and be ready to adapt to the individual snakes needs.

 

As usual a thread on here with bitchy attacks:bash: Why don't people just accept people keep snakes in different ways,

Yeah, It sucks but that is how it is on forums sometimes.

now I don't breed hognoses so don't have Greggs experience but I have had hognoses in my lot for about 20yrs, I have never used a humid hide with them as I have never felt the need. I must say though if I have a humid hide for anyone I do use spag it works for me and my snakes. People need to READ (even real books), RESEARCH, LISTEN RESPECTIVELY and then make there own decisions based on that and be ready to adapt to the individual snakes needs.

See, now the problem with keepers and reptile husbandry is that keepers only offer what they "feel is needed". The truth of the matter is that more often than not what people think their reptiles need and what their reptiles actually need are two entirely different things altogether. Not trying to be an ass. Just being honest.

Now, humid hides are not just to aid in shedding like most keepers seem to think. They serve other purposes. Hognose snakes do not live in hot dry conditions all the time. So, why is that what we offer them so often in captivity? It is actually advised in hognose care sheets to keep them hot and as dry as possible. Reptiles, including hognose snakes need a retreat from hot and dry for obvious reason. Hognose snakes do indeed come from arid areas, however, that is only on the surface. Where they spend the majority of their life is much cooler and much more humid. Underground. They only surface for certain functions like basking/thermo regulating, finding food, finding a mate/breeding, and moving from one area of their environment to another. They spend little time out exposed in the drying elements. So, if they live in cooler, more humid areas in their environment, why do most keepers only offer then hot and dry? How does this make any sense what so ever?

So, on to the actual function of a humid hide spot.
Humid hides offer a humidity gradient. Hognose snakes and almost all other reptiles need a humidity gradient. This allows them to conserve or hold onto moisture they get from their food or drinking water. It actually keeps them well hydrated. In the wild where hogs are from, drinking water is very rare so these animals evolved to conserve what they take in. If you see your snakes drink water often, it is an indication of low level dehydration. It is more of a natural function for hogs to conserve moisture than it is for them to drink water. Hogs who are offered a humid hide will very rarely take a drink from its water bowl. Hogs will spend lots of time in their humid hides because that is where they need to be. It is all about offering options. Letting the snake chose what it needs instead of us forcing what we THINK they need on them.

I have given my reason for not recommending sphagnum moss as a humid hid substrate earlier on in this thread based on years of experience, trial and error, and experimenting. And the above is my reasoning on why hognose snakes and most other reptiles should have humid hides. I hope this helps.

 

:lol2: wasn't really after help but thank you anyway, I agree with most of that but find I can get the gradient required without the addition of a humid hide : victory: for me also from years of experience, trial and error. And now to bow out gracefully, wishing luck to all involved.

 

Well my post was not just for you. It was for everyone reading.

I do have one question for you though. And it goes back to what I said in the last post. How do you know what you are giving is indeed the required humidity gradient? Because you have hogs that have lived a few years without an apparent issue?

I understand that people are going to keep their animals the way they feel is right and there is more than one way to do things blah blah blah.... However, there are certain aspects that many keepers either don't know about or just simply ignore because they think what they are doing is good enough. For me, when I see a reptile species that is "supposed to like it hot and dry' use a cool humid hide pretty much daily it tells me a lot about what the species actually requires vs what we think they require. If a hognose really wanted hot, dry conditions, why else would they frequently use a humid hide? Maybe because they do not like it hot and dry all the time? I could be way off base here...

 

When I first started keeping hoggies, over 4 years ago now, I had all sorts of problems. The first ones I got were in a viv with a ceramic and they wouldn't eat. I followed all sorts of advice about scenting blah blah blah and nothing worked very well at all Then I searched the forums and found Greggs posts. I may have also PM'd him for advice (have a vague memory of this but it is a long time ago and don't have PMs going back that far now) Anyway as a result I moved my hoggies back into smaller RUBs and got rid of the ceramic. I also upped the temperatures and that seemed to sort it all out. To this day they are still in RUBS- One of the females was only eating lance fish/fish scented mice for a long time as a result of previous poor advice I was given but now eats unscented mice fine.

Since then I often follow Greggs post and although I do not post very often I have to say that whenever I have tried anything he suggests it does seem to work. Also as a result of previous threads I have always tried to give a humid area for my hognoses, I have experimented with how to do this ad found the best one for my snakes is to have a seed tray in the RUB that is filled with a mixture of damp eco earth and coco fibre or orchid bark I place a hide/piece of bark etc over this area too. They can then either burrow in it or sit ontop of it under the hide as they choose. The other area of the rub has aspen/lignocel and another hide (this is the hotspot area for them)

They bred for the first time this year and I have eggs in the incubator now.

 

Ignoring the bitchy bits, this has been an interesting thread.
We have two Hoggies (lovely characters) and they are housed in vivs with a deep layer of Megazorb to tunnel in, which they love to. The vivs are heated by ceramic. Never had any feeding or shedding problems with this set up and never offered them a humid hide. What we tend to do is spray the warm end daily to add a bit of humidity.
Anyway, thats the background, what ive got from this thread is that im now going to offer them both a humid box and see what they do with them.

 

Again, ignoring the bitchy bits (which I do find entertaining), there has been some good debate and information passed on. I keep a hognose and only stick some moss in a seperate hide when in shed. The rest of the time it is in dry arid lignocel. However after reading this thread I have gone out and purchased some coconut husk (for reptiles) and really would like to know exactly what to do with it. Do I just stick it, damp in a hide? Or do I dedicate a section of the Viv to a deep area of this ? Ie half the Viv lignocel and half the Viv coconut with a hide in both sides ?

 

I would use a tub for it and don't have is sopping wet, it just needs to be damp & you can spray it when it needs it to keep it damp, I keep the moss hide for mine on her warm end a bit.

 

����������

 

I'm not going to bite (again), but there are some very, very strange misconceptions about wetting, adsorption, absorption and humidity on here!

I'm almost tempted to explain, but it's really not worth the hassle.....

 

let me guess, were spraying wrong, because unless we have misunderstood the mister and pulling the little trigger then u don't know or have ignored the question and merely want some ooh's and aah's fluttered ur way.

the question, just for you, is humid hide + hog = good or bad, yes or no, preference or indifference

so unless ur resume is better than greggs re heterdon il pass on the ego stroking, muchosgrassyarse.

rgds
ed

 

It just tickled me when I read it. Ive enjoyed this thread a few that you have contributed on lately, its good when posts get people excited so that they explain their viewpoints in detail.