Hey guys

My Western Hognose put on a fair bit of weight last year and was looking quite podgy,even for a Hognose. Her feeding response was so strong after brumating that she'd bite her own tail whenever she thought food was coming. She was always hungry and seemed to grow huge over night.

She is 7 years old,nearing 3 feet long and is now about 698g. I now feed her 2 medium mice every 10 - 14 days and is now not always looking for food but feeds every time.

She has a 2 foot by 2 foot viv and plenty of room for exercise. Shredded paper for substrate for burrowing and ambient temps in the viv but around 88f under her hot spot. I only provide extra humidity at shedding time.

Once she lost weight I noticed her tail past her vent was still large compared to the rest of her body. I guessed it was just retained fat but decided to take her to my reptile vet for peace of mind. The vet mentioned she's confident it is just retained fat as it feels quite soft but to take her back if anything changes as Hognoses are prone to rear infections.

She still has perfect motion in her tail and is otherwise 100%,very active and friendly. I'm not 100% convinced it is retained fat though nor an infection and it doesn't TOO firm. But maybe blocked musk glands which I know is fairly common in Hoggies. I've taken some pics and the swelling actually looks much more obvious in them.

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I've heard that Hoggie breeders use a simple procedure to unblock musk glands if that it what the problem is. Can anybody tell me if they've had a similar problem and if they managed to resolve it.

Of course a simple way to find out would be to stress the snake and force her to musk but that is just cruel and not needed or called for imo.

Any input will be appreciated!!!

Personally, I'd take her to the vet to be looked at & see what it is.

 

I will be returning to the vet when she's back from holiday. She's a fully qualified reptile vet and seems confident it is just retained fat but I really would rather be safe than sorry. I don't want to stress the Hoggie out too much but I really want it looking at.

Do any Hognose keepers out there know of a way to see if it is blocked glands and a way to relieve them? I would happily pay for surgery if the vet recommends it but if there's a less stressful and risky way then I'd like to look into it at least.

 

Seems to be a common trend with your snakes, first the corn snake, and now your hoggy, both with swellings near the vent... strange co-incidence or could it be husbandry related ?

 

Excuse me? Common trend? Did you actually bother to read my post and my other thread about the rescued corn or do you need some assistance?

My corn snake was a rescue who had been mistreated with incorrect husbandry and CAME TO ME with the problem which I am trying to get sorted. The vet has stated the previous husbandry would most probably have caused an infection which is what she suspects the lumps are. For the record they are NOT anywhere near the corns vent but just under the skin on the body.

Please read threads properly before voicing your poorly thought out response,regardless of how many star ratings you have,it would save more time and will let other posters who have something useful to say give their input,thank you. My concern is with the care of my animals and not to boost egos.

The vet also stated that the "swelling" in the hognoses rear is more than likely just retained fat after examination.

I have been through my husbandry for both snakes with the vet and everything is spot on and she's pleased with it.

I came onto this thread asking for some opinions as myself am not 100% convinced it is just fat and would like more information on what it could be before returning to the vet,but then there's always some idiot who never bothers reading all of the information but is quick to point fingers.

 

If you’re suspicious it’s blocked glands you could always try a warm bath. Pop your hoggie in some 32/33 degree water for 20/30 minutes.
She will probably hate you for it but if it’s a blocked gland it will melt the oil that’s sealed the entrance.
Good luck.


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Perfect! Thanks for the input,I was thinking of trying a bath but wanted to make sure it wouldn't stress the hoggie out too much with no results. I will try a bath now and see how I get on.

Have you had this problem yourself before? I've heard some people apply slight pressure on the sides from the tail to the vent to see if anything comes out but I don't want to risk injury to the snake.

 

I’ve had something similar with a corn but seen another Hognose with this issue.
Personally, I wouldn’t try pressure yet. I’d try a bath today, another tomorrow and maybe add some pressure on a third try. That is unless you’ve managed to see a vet in the interim.
It’s normally a case of the oils in the gland forming a plug that’s the consistency of butter/soft cheese. Warm water should be enough alone to just get it to soften and then the pressure in the gland will work it out.
Just make sure the water isn’t too hot, what feels warm to you would be scalding for a snake as I’m sure you’re aware. And then just let him/her sit in there for 20-30 minutes. That’s should hopefully help your issue.


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Sounds great,thanks for that. It's hard to know what to do sometimes when you could make things worse but just got her out of the bath now,she wasn't very happy but hopefully it's a start. My rep vets on holiday for another week but she's going to give me a call when she gets back anyway.

Yeah I'm really careful with baths,I check the temp with an infra red thermometer to be safe make sure it's only as deep as it needs to be.

Thanks again :2thumb:

 

Got to be honest for a species that eats a lot of amphibians in the wild it does always surprise me how much hognoses seem to hate water you’d think they’d at least be comfortable with being in it, instead they just seem really offended by the whole ordeal


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I've always wondered that too. But then I know the Eastern Hognoses feed more exclusively on amphibians and can tolerate higher humidity. I'm assuming they're also not as uncomfortable in water but then I've never kept one.

 

Toads don’t require water like frogs but some species do spend a lot of time around water, no idea if the eastern prey is one of those who live along river banks.
I’d merely read that they fed on frogs, toads, small rodents and sometimes small fish, possibly from a less than reliable source. Therefore I’d assumed they would spend time around ponds/water banks. Obviously not like a garter or a natrix, but they do hate the water an awful lot


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Most species don't enjoy being placed in water without an escape route/land area in my experience

 

Quick update,after a few warmish baths and a light squeeze I've had no luck with the swelling. I'm going to leave it now and take the snake back to the vets on Tuesday when I take my other snake.

 

I took the hoggie to the vets again today and after another physical examination the vet still thinks it's retained fat. We've taken a measurement of the circumference of the tail to easily see if there are any changes. Some days it seems to look a bit smaller so it's hard to judge.

She stated it doesn't feel firm enough to be an infection or blocked musk glands and usually with an infection one side always is slightly bigger than the other and these are both the same. Also her musk glands are both clear and free from oils or other obstructions.

It does feel very soft on the upper area down from her back past the vent which really does feel like fat but the under side is firmer. I'm not actually too sure how firm the underside of a hognoses tail should be past the vent?

We discussed a needle biopsy which is the only way to 100% know and I will be taking her back for one in a couple of weeks if the "swelling" hasn't improved just to be safe and then will go from there.

The hoggie does seem a lot happier now her diet has yielded results. She now looks a nicer weight and isn't "squishy" to handle.

I've also taken the hiding logs and branches out of her enclosure and added a hidebox with loads of humidity which she seems to love going into now. i was always under the assumption that hoggies are happy with a humidity of around 45% which I maintained and I only misted for extra moisture at shedding time. I hope I didn't cause any problems by not providing the hide box before? I didn't want to introduce any RIs by providing too much humidity.

 

First, I'm from the U.S. and I see that the default move for.. everyone.. is to run to a vet, that and a comment I got recently. How much do vets cost where you guys live?

Second, I honestly think you are being paranoid. When a gland or duct or any sort of sinus is block and engorged it is very hard/firm. What is normally soft and yielding is being stretched beyond normal limits. If your snake had a blocked duct to expand a section in it's body to the proportions I see in your picture, it would feel like two marbles. Also, both ducts being blocked at the same time, equally in size? You've also mentioned the only abnormal issue you can confirm thus far is that she was over weight. I think you have your answer. I can tell you from experience medical professionals have a ton of tools in their box going from a simple visual assessment to invasive surgeries and pushing them to go farther than they need to is how animals end up dead or injured in unfortunate accidents. I do not distrust doctors, but it seems you've already covered your bases.

Let me ask, why hasn't an ultra sound been done? Any vet worth their salt has one and they are literally made to detect pain, swelling and infection inside internal organs and the body. Hell, even serious breeders have them to check fertility, increase health, percentages, and monitor their own snakes during pregnancy. The image would 100% tell you if it is fat or swelling of an organ and WHAT organ is swelling. You could clear this up in seconds without sticking a huge needle into your snake and digging out a part of it's flesh opening a pathway to possible infection or internal damage.

 

First, I'm from the U.S. and I see that the default move for.. everyone.. is to run to a vet, that and a comment I got recently. How much do vets cost where you guys live?

Second, I honestly think you are being paranoid. When a gland or duct or any sort of sinus is block and engorged it is very hard/firm. What is normally soft and yielding is being stretched beyond normal limits. If your snake had a blocked duct to expand a section in it's body to the proportions I see in your picture, it would feel like two marbles. Also, both ducts being blocked at the same time, equally in size? You've also mentioned the only abnormal issue you can confirm thus far is that she was over weight. I think you have your answer. I can tell you from experience medical professionals have a ton of tools in their box going from a simple visual assessment to invasive surgeries and pushing them to go farther than they need to is how animals end up dead or injured in unfortunate accidents. I do not distrust doctors, but it seems you've already covered your bases.

Let me ask, why hasn't an ultra sound been done? Any vet worth their salt has one and they are literally made to detect pain, swelling and infection inside internal organs and the body. Hell, even serious breeders have them to check fertility, increase health, percentages, and monitor their own snakes during pregnancy. The image would 100% tell you if it is fat or swelling of an organ and WHAT organ is swelling. You could clear this up in seconds without sticking a huge needle into you snake and digging out a part of it's flesh opening a pathway to possible infection or internal damage. I

So just to be clear, what are you actually saying; don't go running to a vet, or go to the vet and get an ultrasound?

 

I retract this post as it is not worth getting into an online argument about a play on words. (Can't add a smiley face in an edit.)

 

Just thought I'd give a quick update. Can't believe how fast the last few months has gone!!!

I decided to ask my vet to give the Hognose a needle biopsy and a full culture of what was in the swelling to be safe.

It was indeed mainly fat but a fair bit of musk too. Also there was two kinds of bacteria found and both were normally found there but one seemed a little high.

To be on the safe side we decided to do an oral course of 2 anti biotics.

The Hognose didn't like it obviously but on the return to the vet she musked! Which was good. The vet then halved the course of the medication and on the final visit she musked LOADS!

We were both very pleased with this and although the "swelling" is still there it feels much softer and more like fat should feel like.

I will keep taking the snake back for regular check ups every few months just to be on the safe side.

In the meantime I'll continue with the diet ,especially in these cooler months due to the Hogs slow metabolism at this time of year.