anyone know much about these they seem awesome
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mikeyb
their often difficult, id highly suggest that unless u can get feeder frogs reguarly not to get them, they like cool temperatures and are very susceptible to stress. in experienced hands they can do well and even breed, but more often than not they die prematurely from improper care.
rgds
ed
rgds
ed
i seem to remember a bird watcher that took a bite and from the description he had a wild little ride before it was over.
but they aren't that enthusiastic about biting, it takes some serious stress to get them really upset, and if ur putting them under that much stress id be more worried about the animal dropping dead than a bite.
ed
but they aren't that enthusiastic about biting, it takes some serious stress to get them really upset, and if ur putting them under that much stress id be more worried about the animal dropping dead than a bite.
ed
Handsome little fellas ay Mikey? From what I've heard about them they don't do well in captivity. So unless you just wanted a 'specimen' snake I'd be manning up and getting yourself a real cobra 
because wolfy a real cobra is like having a loaded gun in the house compared to an air rifle i can deal with rear fanged some pain and discomfort for a few days but bitten and dead within an hour sort of puts me off real elapids plus my king rat likes to make me bleed enough as it is
basically for my collection i have 2 more snakes in mind when i get into the bigger house one being the ptyas carinta or this and the other being bright green dunno why but i love bright green snakes but im undecided as too what yet and i may sneak in some of the red and blue garters somewhere
believe me i dont plan on getting bitten at all i have a nutty king rat that wants to chew my hands off if i go in her viv ungloved but once shes out shes usually pretty nice just slow gently movements and dont shock her and i think this is the same with all snakes even the videos of free handling dwa its all slow definate movements showing ur not a threat ive given way too much blood already with the king rat :lol2:
I already posted a link once before to a blog from an American keeper who had a pair and was recording how they were getting on, feedings etc.
This species and P. bambusicola are snakes I have had my eye on for some years now, but I've never taken the plunge because by all accounts they require an amphibian diet to stand a chance of doing well and I simply don't like acquiring snakes that I know probably won't be able to convert to a rodent or fish diet and stay healthy... (Macropisthodon species are another genus from the same region that I've also been interested in).
That said, I have spent a considerable amount of time researching them and corresponding with people who find them in their native habitat and I have a fair idea of how I would go about trying to keep them if I ever decide to take the plunge (I haven't kept them before, so before anybody goes headlong into trying the following setup, remember this is pure conjecture, or an educated guess at best on my part, and would require careful observation of the snakes and adjustment of the conditions based on their behaviour)...
First, they like cool, humid conditions - usually they are found around shallow streams - so I would keep them in a glass setup with a mesh lid (so the air does not stagnate and temperatures stay low). I would use a substrate of large grade, smooth round gravel (about 1-2" of diameter). A layer about 2" deep should be enough, and this will act as a reservoir - water will be kept at the bottom under the surface layer of the gravel to ensure a humid environment, but the surface must be dry. This will also serve to help the plants grow hydroponically.
Secondly, the are secretive, so would require plenty of cover - a lot of my snakes seem to favour plant cover over "hard" cover like stones and pieces of bark, so as well as providing these I would plant something like Ficus pumila directly into the gravel - this plant grows very quickly and can carpet the bottom of the setup very quickly in these kinds of conditions. You could also have a layer of sphagnum moss covering at least part of the bottom to provide more cover and humidity.
Thirdly, I would at least start off by giving them good lighting as per my usual specifications - using fluorescents, making sure there is white, full spectrum light and UV in conjunction etc. This will require observation, as these species are secretive, but I would provide it anyway for two reasons - firstly, all the other frog-eaters I have kept all enjoyed basking very much, and secondly, because it is better to give the snakes the opportunity to bask if they want to and make sure they can hide away if they don't, than to deny them this and find out they are becoming listless and unresponsive without it...
I would try in this case to have the lights within reach of the snakes so they can avail themselves of their warmth if they want to, but having a mesh lid means that the enclosure won't warm up noticably. If the snakes are always seen to be next to the lights, the overall temperatures should be increased.
Next, diet: the only people I have known have any lasting success with this species have done so by feeding them live frogs - this is the major turn-off for me for these species. It is possible to force-feed them fish and they can last months this way, but for the best long-term chances, live frogs are going to be necessary, and anybody not able to square this with themselves or unable to provide this would be better off not attempting at all...
(And before anybody asks, not only would feeding native amphibians to captive snakes be wrong, it would also be completely illegal - including introduced species like Marsh and Edible frogs - they are ALL protected from being harmed - so anybody mad enough to consider this option, get it out of your heads!).
Also, since frogs tend to carry lots of parasites, and since the freshwater habitats these sorts of snakes inhabit are likewise invariably infested, I would think a fairly aggressive and prolonged treatment for various internal parasites would be essential in the long run...
Finally - venom. Don't get bitten. It has been suspected for a while that both these and Macropisthodon are rather potent and although there are no case histories yet, I wouldn't want to wind up being the first... especially given the kinds of symptoms that can arise from bites from other water snakes from this part of the world like Rhabdophis (bleeding out of every orifice including the eyes...).
That's a basic overview of how I'd go about attempting to keep them... you could also have a look into how keepers fare with WC Mandarin Rat Snakes and use those sorts of guidelines... and I would expect similar success rates.
Regards,
Francis
This species and P. bambusicola are snakes I have had my eye on for some years now, but I've never taken the plunge because by all accounts they require an amphibian diet to stand a chance of doing well and I simply don't like acquiring snakes that I know probably won't be able to convert to a rodent or fish diet and stay healthy... (Macropisthodon species are another genus from the same region that I've also been interested in).
That said, I have spent a considerable amount of time researching them and corresponding with people who find them in their native habitat and I have a fair idea of how I would go about trying to keep them if I ever decide to take the plunge (I haven't kept them before, so before anybody goes headlong into trying the following setup, remember this is pure conjecture, or an educated guess at best on my part, and would require careful observation of the snakes and adjustment of the conditions based on their behaviour)...
First, they like cool, humid conditions - usually they are found around shallow streams - so I would keep them in a glass setup with a mesh lid (so the air does not stagnate and temperatures stay low). I would use a substrate of large grade, smooth round gravel (about 1-2" of diameter). A layer about 2" deep should be enough, and this will act as a reservoir - water will be kept at the bottom under the surface layer of the gravel to ensure a humid environment, but the surface must be dry. This will also serve to help the plants grow hydroponically.
Secondly, the are secretive, so would require plenty of cover - a lot of my snakes seem to favour plant cover over "hard" cover like stones and pieces of bark, so as well as providing these I would plant something like Ficus pumila directly into the gravel - this plant grows very quickly and can carpet the bottom of the setup very quickly in these kinds of conditions. You could also have a layer of sphagnum moss covering at least part of the bottom to provide more cover and humidity.
Thirdly, I would at least start off by giving them good lighting as per my usual specifications - using fluorescents, making sure there is white, full spectrum light and UV in conjunction etc. This will require observation, as these species are secretive, but I would provide it anyway for two reasons - firstly, all the other frog-eaters I have kept all enjoyed basking very much, and secondly, because it is better to give the snakes the opportunity to bask if they want to and make sure they can hide away if they don't, than to deny them this and find out they are becoming listless and unresponsive without it...
I would try in this case to have the lights within reach of the snakes so they can avail themselves of their warmth if they want to, but having a mesh lid means that the enclosure won't warm up noticably. If the snakes are always seen to be next to the lights, the overall temperatures should be increased.
Next, diet: the only people I have known have any lasting success with this species have done so by feeding them live frogs - this is the major turn-off for me for these species. It is possible to force-feed them fish and they can last months this way, but for the best long-term chances, live frogs are going to be necessary, and anybody not able to square this with themselves or unable to provide this would be better off not attempting at all...
(And before anybody asks, not only would feeding native amphibians to captive snakes be wrong, it would also be completely illegal - including introduced species like Marsh and Edible frogs - they are ALL protected from being harmed - so anybody mad enough to consider this option, get it out of your heads!).
Also, since frogs tend to carry lots of parasites, and since the freshwater habitats these sorts of snakes inhabit are likewise invariably infested, I would think a fairly aggressive and prolonged treatment for various internal parasites would be essential in the long run...
Finally - venom. Don't get bitten. It has been suspected for a while that both these and Macropisthodon are rather potent and although there are no case histories yet, I wouldn't want to wind up being the first... especially given the kinds of symptoms that can arise from bites from other water snakes from this part of the world like Rhabdophis (bleeding out of every orifice including the eyes...).
That's a basic overview of how I'd go about attempting to keep them... you could also have a look into how keepers fare with WC Mandarin Rat Snakes and use those sorts of guidelines... and I would expect similar success rates.
Regards,
Francis
francis always makes sense lol erm wat about if i went to my old dears pond and basically got a big lump of frog spawn and then grew these on then kept them F/T killed humanley of course
frog scented mice are possible, but ideally furless pinks, you could have a few frogs frozen, BUT, u would have to be prepared for refusals of such offerings and have a supply of either frozen or fresh (and kickin) frogs, personally id hold off on francis's idea of sub substrate water until they were rock solid settled, otherwise its just a bacteria source they could have issues with, and pseudo's have enough issues without living on bacteria sources.
the water in gravel idea is an old zoo method often used for rainbows and that "type", but they had drains in the cement floors that were regularly flushed thru and were not a static thing, but technology has advanced exponentially since then, still that kind of setup is not necessary for their successful care but it would be damn pretty with moss and plants an such. phib keepers especially dendrobates keepers could do pseudo's very well i think, if they were so inclined.
this species needs old mandarin level importation to achieve wider availability of captive born babies, and then the success that follows that, but i dont think any of the pseudo's could sustain such exploitation and thankfully their not popular enough at present where thats a risk.
long may it continue that way.
rgds
ed
the water in gravel idea is an old zoo method often used for rainbows and that "type", but they had drains in the cement floors that were regularly flushed thru and were not a static thing, but technology has advanced exponentially since then, still that kind of setup is not necessary for their successful care but it would be damn pretty with moss and plants an such. phib keepers especially dendrobates keepers could do pseudo's very well i think, if they were so inclined.
this species needs old mandarin level importation to achieve wider availability of captive born babies, and then the success that follows that, but i dont think any of the pseudo's could sustain such exploitation and thankfully their not popular enough at present where thats a risk.
long may it continue that way.
rgds
ed
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